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  • kingofwylietx

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    Feb 29, 2008
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    DFW area.....Wylie.
    Okay, I just got the green light from my wife on an AR.........so I ran to the computer and am now typing this before she changes her mind. I don't have one and have never shot one.

    I saw an article in Rifle magazine on the new Remington R-25, which is available in .243, .308, and 7mm-08. That particular rifle seems well suited for hogs, deer, and zombies. I hear Colt and Bushmaster are good.

    -The budget is open, so I want a nice one.
    -I don't want to personally build anything.
    -If there is a 'builder' in DFW, I'd be open to something custom.

    If you know of [or have] a nice one for sale and think it's a real good one, I'd be open to buying it.

    Any advice is very welcome, as we'll be jumping on this immediately.
    Hurley's Gold
     

    nalioth

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    I saw an article in Rifle magazine on the new Remington R-25, which is available in .243, .308, and 7mm-08. That particular rifle seems well suited for hogs, deer, and zombies. I hear Colt and Bushmaster are good.
    The umbrella company that owns Remington owns Bushmaster, as well.

    Bushmaster supplies the ARs for the "Remington" brand.
     

    malladus

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    Good start would be to ask yourself a few questions:

    (1) What is the intended purpose: plinking, hunting, target shooting, etc.
    (a) calibre
    (b) optics
    (c) barrel
    (d) furniture

    (2) Are you ging to reload or do you want to go bulk ammo buying
    (a) calibre

    (3) Amount of expected use?
    (a) proper gas key setup
    (b) barrel type (chrome, stainless, or plain)
    (c) piston gun

    (4) family gun?
    (a) furniture to allow multi user adjustments

    ARs are like jeeps, once someone buys one the parts come off and the new stuff goes on. Also everyone has an opinion about every one elses AR so definitely take what advice is given in the context on your planned usage.

    malladus

    PS - looks like you may be an owner before I can deliver on my promise to let you shoot mine, but if you need any help with working on it or if you decide to build let me know and I'll help out how I can.
     

    Leper

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    I prefer CMMG. Quality stuff. As far as different calibers, get one for 5.56. 5.56 will shoot 223. You can get different uppers later if you want to change calibers. I do not know of any AR15s that will fire.308, magwell size is too small.

    It doesn't take much to build an AR from scratch.. Nothing like building an AK.

    Keep in mind that if you find a complete lower that you like and a complete upper somewhere else, you only have to push two pins to have a working firearm. It takes less time to do that than it takes to tie one shoe.

    Get chrome lined barrel if possible. 16" is the shortest barrel you will want, 20" for longer range accuracy. I prefer a flattop for optic options.
     

    kingofwylietx

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    Feb 29, 2008
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    DFW area.....Wylie.
    Good start would be to ask yourself a few questions:

    (1) What is the intended purpose: plinking, hunting, target shooting, etc.
    (a) calibre
    (b) optics
    (c) barrel
    (d) furniture

    (2) Are you ging to reload or do you want to go bulk ammo buying
    (a) calibre

    (3) Amount of expected use?
    (a) proper gas key setup
    (b) barrel type (chrome, stainless, or plain)
    (c) piston gun

    (4) family gun?
    (a) furniture to allow multi user adjustments

    ARs are like jeeps, once someone buys one the parts come off and the new stuff goes on. Also everyone has an opinion about every one elses AR so definitely take what advice is given in the context on your planned usage.

    malladus

    PS - looks like you may be an owner before I can deliver on my promise to let you shoot mine, but if you need any help with working on it or if you decide to build let me know and I'll help out how I can.

    Let's see, I've done a little research. I can tell you what I am thinking, but remember that I don't know a whole lot about them.

    1. purpose = plinking & hunting (hog & deer)
    a. caliber = .308 or .243 for hunting........of course .223 would be good for plinking. I thought we'd go with a larger caliber for now and maybe look at .223 upper later if that is possible. I think the Remington R-25 is based on AR10 platform (I saw write-ups in Rifle mag and Guns & Ammo online).
    b. optics = to be decided later, probably a scope or red-dot....not sure yet.
    c. I thought a stainless barrel would be nice, any length. Chrome lined is an option.
    d. furniture = it would be nice to have camo or tan, but this is not a sticking point at all. Black is fine.

    2. bulk ammo, I don't reload (yet).
    a,b,c = I don't know enough to say for these questions, but I am still thinking stainless barrel.

    3. it will probably only see a few hundred rounds a year, unless it is particularly fun to shoot. If it's really fun, it could easily see more.

    4. family gun = yes.
    a. my wife will be shooting it too. I hope to get one that isn't too heavy.

    She's pretty hot on this since she saw something on the news this morning and wants to get one ASAP (thank you, FOX). She is ready to go get one today, right now. I don't know what she saw, but the first words out of her mouth were 'you know that gun you were talking about, we need to go get one today'. I just want to know enough to get a good one.

    We were at the ranch last weekend, she got to shoot a fully auto one and loved it. She said it was very light and didn't kick. Our ranch foreman was at our range while we were there, it was his. I was off hunting hogs, so I didn't get to play with it. The ranch is actually owned by my wifes mom and her 2 brothers. I know that we'll be buying a semi-auto version right now.
     

    kingofwylietx

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    Feb 29, 2008
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    DFW area.....Wylie.
    Get chrome lined barrel if possible. 16" is the shortest barrel you will want, 20" for longer range accuracy. I prefer a flattop for optic options.

    I, too, like the look of a flattop. I don't see any reason for us to need a carry handle. Is there any advantage to a chrome lined barrel vs. stainless (or is stainless better)?
     

    nalioth

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    I, too, like the look of a flattop. I don't see any reason for us to need a carry handle. Is there any advantage to a chrome lined barrel vs. stainless (or is stainless better)?
    Chrome lined barrels are specced by the military primarily for longevity under full auto fire.

    Chrome lining a barrel degrades accuracy.
     

    tussery

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    Jul 26, 2008
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    If you go .308 you will not be able to get a .223 upper later and just put it on a .308 lower. The magwell is physically larger on the .308 lowers and therefore a .223 upper is too small to fit on it. If you want a rifle length case you are going to have to use an AR-10 lower if you want an intermediate length case you will have to use an AR-15 lower.

    Edit: You also may be a little more hard pressed finding a .308 AR right now.
     

    malladus

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    Jul 20, 2008
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    Based on your answers look for either a .308 (AR-10) or a AR-15 in 6.8 SPC.

    Personnaly I would favor the 6.8 based on your answer.

    -The 6.8 would be sufficient for hunting hogs, deer, and such,
    -you get the AR-15 lower which would let you go 5.56 or .223 for plinking and light varmiting,
    -6.8 works well in the carbine barrel length 16" or 18", look for a midlength gas system if possible for more reliability,
    -with the abundance of aftermarket accessories you could easily upgrade with something other then black furniture for most parts,
    -would be lighter then the AR10 in .308 for your wife,
    -recoil is fairly mild,
    -lighter for lugging around hunting and stuff,
    -ammo (other then surplus, unfortunately no real surplus 6.8) runs pretty much the same for hunting stuff as .308,
    -only the mags, bolt and barrel are not interchangeable with the .223 and 5.56 ARs so you would have a much easier time finding parts later on in life if need be,
    -and most manufcatures make them andyou can get them in a variety of flavors.

    I would say definitely go with a flattop. Fixed front posts or not is up to you, but the fixed front is cheaper in the short term. Typically you won't really see them in the scope so its not a big concern. Carrying handles are cheap and easy to get later on if you want to shot with irons ala GI. Do buy good mount/rings for your optics so you can swap and have them re-zeroo consistantly.

    ake sure if has M4 feed ramps, these aren't critical in .223 or 5.56 rifles unless you have one with a fun button, but in the 6.8 they ensure better feeding of the rounds. Also look for one with a 6.8 SPCII or improved chambering, will handle higher pressure combat loads better. Avoid ones with cardinal armory barrels (they had some issues with the chroming of the bores that causes a constriction and higher pressures).

    Defintely look for one with a collapseable stock unless you and your wife have similar lengths of pull. If you plan on getting after purchase furniture, get the one with the cheapest M4 style stock since you will be just throwing it away and then upgrade with something more to your liking.

    Sounds like a RIS wouldn't be required for your use so just buy one with the standard handguards, you can get them in a variety of colors afterwards if you want.

    malladus
     

    jdh

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    R15s are bushmaster
    R25s are DPMS
    Both owned by Cerberus.

    If I was going to buy another AR type rifle today it would be and R25 in 308 but I already have an M4gery.
     

    TJ Willy

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    Oct 27, 2008
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    Lots and lots of good info over at AR15.com if you wanna check it out.

    I opted for the Stag Arms rifle. Their commercial line is relatively new. 2003 I think. Stag is the commercial side of CMT which builds many milspec parts for the 'major manufactures.'

    If you are a lefty, Stag is pretty well known for manufacturing an excellent southpaw AR.

    Here is a link to interesting article about Stags M6 SV (Super Varmiter) which seems to be a good fit for what you are looking for in a rifle. It is from Guns And Ammo.

    Stag's Super Tackdriver.

    The beginning of the article gives you some insight into the companies origins.
     

    DocRod

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    Nov 3, 2008
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    I, too, like the look of a flattop. I don't see any reason for us to need a carry handle. Is there any advantage to a chrome lined barrel vs. stainless (or is stainless better)?

    Go with a flat-top at first, and if you find that you need a carry handle, it's simple matter to add one. I added a carry handle because I really hate feeling strangled by a sling when I'm treking through the countryside.

    The barrel choice is really a personal preference. If you keep your rifle cleaned and lubricated, any of the barrels will serve you well. If you hate cleaning your guns, go with the stainless steel because it is somewhat more forgiving.
     

    DocRod

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    I spent 9 years in college learning a career that requires a nuclear reactor, a 5 millon dollar lab, 15 positions total, and they only open up when some one dies in a glob of molten magma. Maybe I should have seriously considered something else.
    malladus

    I just had to laugh at myself after reading your signature. I went to school for an eternity and have a B.B.A., B.S., M.S., and an M.I.S. - and I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!
     

    TAZ

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    Oct 17, 2008
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    If your budget is truly open,and youre set on 308 look into POF's 308 rifles. A friend of mine has one of their 16" rifles and it has been very reliable and dead nuts accurate. Piston driven to boot. You can also take a look at LWRC's 308 piston driven gun, but I think that is still in the vaporware department and $$$$$$$$. DPMS's SASS clones have also received some good reviews, but for less money than the POF and LWRC. The thing to consider is that with a 308 is that youre stuck with the 308 platform. Not that its a bad platform, but hard to feed for plinking. The 223 variant offers a LOT of modularity. You can go 22LR for plinking; 223, 6.5Grendel, 6.8SPC for deer and other longer range things; 458SOCOM, 450Thumper, 50Baewolf for hogs. Heck I think COBB even makes a single shot 50BMG upper for it.
     

    kingofwylietx

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    If your budget is truly open,and youre set on 308 look into POF's 308 rifles. A friend of mine has one of their 16" rifles and it has been very reliable and dead nuts accurate. Piston driven to boot. You can also take a look at LWRC's 308 piston driven gun, but I think that is still in the vaporware department and $$$$$$$$. DPMS's SASS clones have also received some good reviews, but for less money than the POF and LWRC. The thing to consider is that with a 308 is that youre stuck with the 308 platform. Not that its a bad platform, but hard to feed for plinking. The 223 variant offers a LOT of modularity. You can go 22LR for plinking; 223, 6.5Grendel, 6.8SPC for deer and other longer range things; 458SOCOM, 450Thumper, 50Baewolf for hogs. Heck I think COBB even makes a single shot 50BMG upper for it.

    The POF sounds pretty good, it took me a while to find the website (you forgot I don't really know AR's....Patriot Ordnance). Are they worth the money? I don't mind spending it if they are the best. We plan to keep this thing, so I don't want a high maintenance rifle. I also don't want to spend $2400 if I could get 2 others that are just as good for $1200 each (we can get 2 DPMS Panthers in .308 for the same price).

    Opinions?
     

    TAZ

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    Wish I could be of more help, but I only have second hand information. I got to handle 2 samples of the POF (1 at the store and my friends), both were well put together. Didnt get to shoot either though, just dry fire.The guy at the store said they beat the crap out of their rifle (it was a personal/demo rifle not a for sale unit) without any issues. I'll send my friend a note to see if he is still liking his.
     

    kingofwylietx

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    Wish I could be of more help, but I only have second hand information. I got to handle 2 samples of the POF (1 at the store and my friends), both were well put together. Didnt get to shoot either though, just dry fire.The guy at the store said they beat the crap out of their rifle (it was a personal/demo rifle not a for sale unit) without any issues. I'll send my friend a note to see if he is still liking his.


    I contacted POF and spoke to Chris. They are running VERY long on their build times right now. He directed me to 3 distributors. 2 didn't have anything in stock (one was charging $800 OVER MSRP) and the other has not returned my call yet. Maybe you can PM me the name of the store and a contact. I'll see if they have any interest in selling their demo.
     
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