Police use of tasers

[Mexican_Hippie]

My biggest concern is for people like my son who are autistic. They tend to respond awkwardly, or not at all, in stressful situations.

This isn't confined to tasers though. I hope some training is given to officers now that it seems kids like this are more common. (Not saying the kid on the article is similar, just a general concern).

TXI, do you have any insight on LEO training for approaching people with disabilities?

I would think for deaf persons this would be applicable as well, but it's easier to notice them when you approach.

 

[breakingcontact]

Also this defense of "we dont know all the facts" at some point comes up empty. We will never know all of the facts.

 

[breakingcontact]

My biggest concern is for people like my son who are autistic. They tend to respond awkwardly, or not at all, in stressful situations.

This isn't confined to tasers though. I hope some training is given to officers now that it seems kids like this are more common. (Not saying the kid on the article is similar, just a general concern).

TXI, do you have any insight on LEO training for approaching people with disabilities?

I would think for deaf persons this would be applicable as well, but it's easier to notice them when you approach.

Excellent point.

 

[jordanmills]

My biggest concern is for people like my son who are autistic. They tend to respond awkwardly, or not at all, in stressful situations.

This isn't confined to tasers though. I hope some training is given to officers now that it seems kids like this are more common. (Not saying the kid on the article is similar, just a general concern).

TXI, do you have any insight on LEO training for approaching people with disabilities?

I would think for deaf persons this would be applicable as well, but it's easier to notice them when you approach.

Yep. There's a lot of evidence of poor training or compliance on the part of LEOs. They expect people to comply with all sorts of dumb things when it's not required or when they're incapable of understanding and/or doing what's being screamed at them.

 

[breakingcontact]

This is what I'm interested in. Not only the fact that police are employed by the very citizens they serve but also how they are trained and taught sound doctrine and how that doctrine is developed.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

This is what I'm interested in. Not only the fact that police are employed by the very citizens they serve but also how they are trained and taught sound doctrine and how that doctrine is developed.

Right, I think there's just not enough good training. This is also one of those jobs where years of experience seems to have a big impact.

But training, doubling up rookies with older guys and other mentoring activities all cost money. It's not always there for all agencies.

 

[Kennydale]

Couldn't resist this. I think at my age a taser would give me instant heart stoppage !

 

[BrenGunner]

My biggest concern is for people like my son who are autistic. They tend to respond awkwardly, or not at all, in stressful situations.

This isn't confined to tasers though. I hope some training is given to officers now that it seems kids like this are more common. (Not saying the kid on the article is similar, just a general concern).

TXI, do you have any insight on LEO training for approaching people with disabilities?

I would think for deaf persons this would be applicable as well, but it's easier to notice them when you approach.

Currently anyone who takes a Basic Peace Officer class in Texas has 16 hours of Crisis intervention training.

This 16 hours covers the recognition of the most common mood/personality behaviors as well as mental retardation and autism. Students are taught ways of determining the different illnesses and behavior cues of the illnesses and how to talk with them.

Since mental health consumers are 4 times more likely to be in a use of force altercation the big thing being pushed is the control paradox. This paradox is after recognizing a mental health consumer that by taking a less authoritative approach, tone, directions and allowing more time for commands to be followed the more able you are to diffuse a situation without force.
They are also taught the LEAPS method.
Listen, empathize, ask, paraphrase and summarize.
Houston PD put out a very good set of videos on this ill see if I can find.

A lot of departments are adding there own Crisis intervention team. This teams sole job is to interact with mental health consumers and help them get to treatment.

Outside of Basic Peace Officer training there are agency's and entities that have intermediate and advanced crisis intervention.

Part of the problem is the lack of State Mental health resources. Texas is 47 IIRC in mental health funding. I can tell you from personal experience it is almost impossible to get beds at ASH or SASH hospitals.

As for TASER in a Use of force continuum it depends vastly on department policy. A lot of departments have TASER before open hand techniques or intermediate weapons. There are tons of statistics showing the use of tasers before going hands on reduces both suspect and officer injury.

As stated earlier Batons are weapons capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death and there are a lot of no strike zones with batons.


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[breakingcontact]

As for TASER in a Use of force continuum it depends vastly on department policy. A lot of departments have TASER before open hand techniques or intermediate weapons. There are tons of statistics showing the use of tasers before going hands on reduces both suspect and officer safety.

Reduces safety?

 

[BrenGunner]

Sorry typo. Thanks for the catch.
Fixed

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[Cracker]

My biggest concern is for people like my son who are autistic. They tend to respond awkwardly, or not at all, in stressful situations.

This isn't confined to tasers though. I hope some training is given to officers now that it seems kids like this are more common. (Not saying the kid on the article is similar, just a general concern).

TXI, do you have any insight on LEO training for approaching people with disabilities?

I would think for deaf persons this would be applicable as well, but it's easier to notice them when you approach.

How do you recognize someone who is legally deaf? Or for that matter legally blind? Just curious as I'm legally deaf and for the LEO side I can say every LEO has reacted differently when I tell them.

 

[breakingcontact]

Sorry typo. Thanks for the catch.
Fixed

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No prob. Was just making sure I understood what you were saying.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

How do you recognize someone who is legally deaf? Or for that matter legally blind? Just curious as I'm legally deaf and for the LEO side I can say every LEO has reacted differently when I tell them.

Because someone who is autistic can obviously hear but reacts differently. It's easier to tell when someone can't hear you talking to them at all.

I'm glad to hear there's training on this. When I think it through I would rather my son be subdued by taser than get in a physical altercation, as long as he isn't injured when he falls. I can see how a taser would be safer.

 

[Younggun]

I'll throw my .02 in I guess.

I don't have a major problem with the use of tazers.


BC, I'm gonna use your posted example as a situation, not trying to say right or wrong on that particular case.

So the officers tell the guy to stop but he keeps backing away. Do they let him walk away, shock him, or physically stop him?

I can see trying to physically stop him having just as many, if not more risks the him as the tazer. Anything from a broken arm, to smacking his head on the floor or wall. I can see the department still being accused of excessive force.

My view is that if you are told to stop and don't, you are going to be stopped one way or another. I don't see a problem with cops using a taser over physical force.


As to what happens at the school, we don't know what commands were given, what was said on either side, or the demeanor of the student, or the cops for that matter. Can't say if they should have used that level of force or not.

I think it would be difficult to have specific guidelines of when to taze. Life is too dynamic for that. That's what makes these threads difficult. How do you answer a question when there is no "one size fits all" answer? It comes down to an officers judgement.

Now some here are less trusting of officers than others, so do you take away the tazer and put things back to a purely physical altercation? It's already been said that there are less injuries when tazers are used, I personally believe that an officer who would taze someone prematurely would also use excessive physical force if that were the only other option. Don't think removing the tazer would make anyone safer.

 

[HillRider]

How is your head being slammed into concrete from a fall "less than lethal." Sound pretty damn lethal to me. Why not a punch to the face? I know, politics, but much safer. What's the matter, cops don't know how to fight? I know, more of a comment of our wussy society, but still. Can't handle a guy under 6 feet and 180 lbs? I've beat the hell out of guys bigger than that, and I'm not that big. Maybe cops need to take some Judo.

Anyways, the example that BC gave is yet another proof that police should not be in schools or they should not be involved in disciplinary situations. Cops have no business tasering a minor in school, regardless of the situation.

Where is my country?

 

[bones_708]

Generally speaking...since we dont know the specifics; I can be tasered while walking down the street if a cop tells me to stop and i dont?

Yes of course, why would you think otherwise? If a cop can use force, if they could physically stop you, then they can tase you. That doesn't mean they always will or should, but it's within the law to do so. Their actions may have to be justified later but tasing someone results in a lower percentage of injuries to both sides than going hands on. You are more likely to get hurt when you get tackled than tased. Now not every dept wants cops to use tasers the same way but that's policy not law.

 

[breakingcontact]

Their actions may have to be justified later...

This would be another interesting statistic. # and % of officers held accountable for using excessive force per department and if their punishment was just administrative, criminal or civil.

 

[Younggun]

This would be another interesting statistic. # and % of officers held accountable for using excessive force per department and if their punishment was just administrative, criminal or civil.

That would be a difficult statistic to figure out.

How many times do we believe force is excessive when the department decides it's not, then we don't even agree on where the line is drawn for excessive.

As for the penalty, that would be easier to come by. I don't believe they face criminal charges very often unless it really reaches the extreme end of excessive force.

 

[Younggun]

How is your head being slammed into concrete from a fall "less than lethal." Sound pretty damn lethal to me. Why not a punch to the face? I know, politics, but much safer. What's the matter, cops don't know how to fight? I know, more of a comment of our wussy society, but still. Can't handle a guy under 6 feet and 180 lbs? I've beat the hell out of guys bigger than that, and I'm not that big. Maybe cops need to take some Judo.

Anyways, the example that BC gave is yet another proof that police should not be in schools or they should not be involved in disciplinary situations. Cops have no business tasering a minor in school, regardless of the situation.

Where is my country?

Collapse or be thrown down with my weight plus the weight and momentum of a an officer who may or may not have an above average body weight, hmmmmm.


But screw it. In the name of proving manliness lets just say to hell with it and increase the chance of injury to the officer and suspect. Besides, we can afford to spend the money to get them fixed back up at the station. You know, cause the department is responsible for the health of anyone in custody. Sounds like a good use of tax money to me.

 

[HillRider]

Collapse or be thrown down with my weight plus the weight and momentum of a an officer who may or may not have an above average body weight, hmmmmm.


But screw it. In the name of proving manliness lets just say to hell with it and increase the chance of injury to the officer and suspect. Besides, we can afford to spend the money to get them fixed back up at the station. You know, cause the department is responsible for the health of anyone in custody. Sounds like a good use of tax money to me.

That's the problem, no more men around. Cowardly cops with tasers is just a recipe for abuse.