Question about traveling with guns in TX

[Renegade]

She laughed and said "of course an owner or manager can give their agent control of the property and they could carry"

No one has ever said otherwise. Not sure why you had to ask her since we are all in agreement on that.

 

[cycleguy2300]

No, it isn't know as permission. Jesus, some of you guys just double down when mistaken.

Have you looked in the mirror at the guy doing it?

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[cycleguy2300]

No one has ever said otherwise. Not sure why you had to ask her since we are all in agreement on that.

I asked her, not for my information, but for the authority of her title, so thick headed cro-mags like some here would understand PERMISSION to carry is a real thing.

Permission to carry is simply joint control of a property. Law, logic and practice are in agreement here.

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[Renegade]

Permission to carry is simply joint control of a property. Law, logic and practice are in agreement here.

Again nobody disputes you can carry if you have control of property. Not sure why this is so hard.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Not sure why this is so hard.

I get hard when talking to you, now get your hand off my lap.

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[popper]

Interesting that this thread has gotten so far off track, IMHO. OP asked a question and we gave (IMHO) ill fitted answers.
Assuming:
1) he lives in apt where he is concerned about theft. Wrong side of town, with others?
2) travelling with others in their vehicle.
Lets assume he a student living with others in Lubbock on the way to Galveston on spring break.
I say leave it at 'home', hidden as best, not under the mattress.
Without LTC how do you get into the hotel/motel and where do you hide it there?
Leave it in the car? Keep in luggage?
What you say now?

 

[Renegade]

How did you know I get hard when talking to you?

I didn't - why did you wait till now to admit it? Any other members you want to admit to? It is OK to come out of the closet.

 

[Uncle_Jed]

The only thing I'm confused about is who is driving the vehicle, who owns the vehicle, and who owns the gun. I am one who purchased the gun from a local gun store. I will however be the passenger, someone else is driving their vehicle (which I cannot legally drive) and they did not purchase the gun, but they can legally own a firearm just like me. Does the driver have to be the one that bought the gun, or does it matter in this situation?

Short answer: It makes no difference who owns the gun. What matters is who owns the car or is in control of the car that the gun is in. The owner/driver of the car is the one who will be held responsible.

Long Answer: Renegade is correct on the law. The statute at issue Texas Penal Code 46.02 Section (a-1) is the relevant section in this situtation.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.

So, you legally you have two options. Keep the gun out of "plain sight," i.e in the glovebox or trunk, or carry it openly in a shoulder or belt holster.

As a practical matter, keep it in the glove box. If you want to put a couple of loaded magazines in the glove box with it, that's fine. If stopped, be respectful, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and tell him or her you have a handgun in the car if asked. If it's at night, turning on the overhead light in the car will help put the officer at ease.

Uncle Jed

 

[Bozz10mm]

Interesting that this thread has gotten so far off track, IMHO. OP asked a question and we gave (IMHO) ill fitted answers.
Assuming:
1) he lives in apt where he is concerned about theft. Wrong side of town, with others?
2) travelling with others in their vehicle.
Lets assume he a student living with others in Lubbock on the way to Galveston on spring break.
I say leave it at 'home', hidden as best, not under the mattress.
Without LTC how do you get into the hotel/motel and where do you hide it there?
Leave it in the car? Keep in luggage?
What you say now?

Don't change the subject.

 

[Axxe55]

Short answer: It makes no difference who owns the gun. What matters is who owns the car or is in control of the car that the gun is in. The owner/driver of the car is the one who will be held responsible.

Long Answer: Renegade is correct on the law. The statute at issue Texas Penal Code 46.02 Section (a-1) is the relevant section in this situtation.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.

So, you legally you have two options. Keep the gun out of "plain sight," i.e in the glovebox or trunk, or carry it openly in a shoulder or belt holster.

As a practical matter, keep it in the glove box. If you want to put a couple of loaded magazines in the glove box with it, that's fine. If stopped, be respectful, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and tell him or her you have a handgun in the car if asked. If it's at night, turning on the overhead light in the car will help put the officer at ease.

Uncle Jed

Welcome to TGT.

 

[popper]

Gun in car while travelling in Tx - gun in the car is least problem. 99.9% of time, LE will never know.

 

[txinvestigator]

I asked her, not for my information, but for the authority of her title, so thick headed cro-mags like some here would understand PERMISSION to carry is a real thing.

Permission to carry is simply joint control of a property. Law, logic and practice are in agreement here.

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Now you are not accurately representing what you just reported that you asked and she answered. As Reagan said, "there you go again"

 

[Hoji]

Short answer: It makes no difference who owns the gun. What matters is who owns the car or is in control of the car that the gun is in. The owner/driver of the car is the one who will be held responsible.

Long Answer: Renegade is correct on the law. The statute at issue Texas Penal Code 46.02 Section (a-1) is the relevant section in this situtation.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.

So, you legally you have two options. Keep the gun out of "plain sight," i.e in the glovebox or trunk, or carry it openly in a shoulder or belt holster.

As a practical matter, keep it in the glove box. If you want to put a couple of loaded magazines in the glove box with it, that's fine. If stopped, be respectful, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and tell him or her you have a handgun in the car if asked. If it's at night, turning on the overhead light in the car will help put the officer at ease.

Uncle Jed

 

[cycleguy2300]

Now you are not accurately representing what you just reported that you asked and she answered. As Reagan said, "there you go again"

Let me try again, because maybe cro-mag was a generous assessment...

Me ask law person if can carry boom-boom in other person cave. She say ok if other cave man say ok. Me not ask because me not know. Me ask because you no believe me.

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[Vaquero]

"Flings molotov cocktail at dumpster"

Oops! That was the old cooking oil bin!

 

[txinvestigator]

Let me try again, because maybe cro-mag was a generous assessment...

Me ask law person if can carry boom-boom in other person cave. She say ok if other cave man say ok. Me not ask because me not know. Me ask because you no believe me.

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Being a jack ass doesn't make you or the imaginary lawyer any less wrong.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Being a jack ass doesn't make you or the imaginary lawyer any less wrong.

So you would have arrested someone for UCW if they were carrying in a scenario as we have been discussing?

Remember CCP and your duty to act...

To my knowledge there are no cases where some one was arrested, prosecuted and convicted for UCW when they had permission (i.e. control of the property).

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[Jimbo302]

I don't see the problem. I've been pulled over with two loaded pistols and 20 other firearms in the backseat. No issues.

 

[txinvestigator]

So you would have arrested someone for UCW if they were carrying in a scenario as we have been discussing?

Remember CCP and your duty to act...

To my knowledge there are no cases where some one was arrested, prosecuted and convicted for UCW when they had permission (i.e. control of the property).

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If you read my posts I already answered your first question, but having little or no chance of getting arrested doesn't make it lawful.

Are you aware of the criminal cases in all 254 counties in Texas; otherwise, I don't see how you not knowing something has any relevance to the law. Review the 2020 DPS conviction report, there are many firearm related offense for which there were no convictions, does that mean those laws don't exist?

 

[cycleguy2300]

If you read my posts I already answered your first question, but having little or no chance of getting arrested doesn't make it lawful.

Are you aware of the criminal cases in all 254 counties in Texas; otherwise, I don't see how you not knowing something has any relevance to the law. Review the 2020 DPS conviction report, there are many firearm related offense for which there were no convictions, does that mean those laws don't exist?

A simple YES or NO would have worked, but let's look at the facts: you believe (how ever wrongly) it would an illegal act to carry with permission, without an LTC. You have a duty to arrest for violations that occur in your presence and to keep the peace. It should be safe to beleive you would ARREST a person for UCW even though they had permission (and by extension, control of the property).

If carrying with permission in a location was illegal, we should expect, over time, to see both arrests and convictions for the violation.

I can't prove a negative which is what you are asking for, but I know the law, I know case law and I understand how to articulate an arrest, even nit-picky technical ones, and there is no way I see a person would get convicted of UCW for carrying on property where they have permission to carry. My lawyer friend was in complete agreement and laughed at the thought of someone being arrested for this. All a defendant would need to show is by being given permission to carry there also conveyed, implicitly or explicitly some (any) amount of control over the property. I say being given permission to carry on a property inherently carries with it some level of control over the property.

You can easily prove it is some how illegal if you would simply dig through the court records of all 254 counties to find a case of it happening.

I am around a lot of people who beyond the arrests they make, know a lot of folks who make arrests other places in the state. Those I have mentioned the scenario to have never heard of any such arrest, much less a conviction.

I wouldn't argue with you if I didn't have some respect you...

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