Recommendations for a 20" AR upper

[balloo93]

I ordered up a Surplus arms lower from AIM yesterday and it's on it's way to Spreadfire!

I have a pinned 16" middy and a 16" m4-type AR already. I'm feeling like a rifle length setup this time and a A1 stock or the ACE rifle stock.

I've been looking at Bravo Company's 20" rifle upper and it has the twist I'm wanting (1/7) but I am open to suggestions as well. I'd want a 1/7 or 1/8 twist and would like to keep it around $400 without BCG and charging handle. I have a spare BCG, hell that's part of the reason I'm building/assembling another one.

Post up suggestions an links if possible.

 

[AusTex]

Build it yourself. I purchased a colt 20" from this guy and he is good to deal with. Prices are right also.

***REDUCED AGAIN*** FN 20" Barrel Chrome lined chamber and bore. 1/7 5.56 $179 $169 $159 - AR15.COM

 

[Texas42]

I like my 16" middy from Bravo company. They make good stuff. I don't have that many rounds through it, and I haven't put anything through it other than 55grn FMJ surplus stuff. I need to buy some 69grain match bullets and see how well it does.

Don't forget, your going to have to buy the hanguards too.

I take it your not trying to make a bull barrel? Just asking.

 

[matefrio]

Core 15 Rifle Systems is offering a special on their Complete 20” Hbar Flat Top Upper Receiver. Sell the BCG for $80 or $90 and it comes out cheep.


This upper is equal to any other 20” upper on the market and we back it with our standard Manufacturers Lifetime Warranty. This Special is only being advertised on ARFCOM although anyone can purchase this upper for this price. This is a limited time offer. Check out this Promotion on our website: http://www.core15rifles.com/

http://www.core15rifles.com/compone...ge.tpl&product_id=161&category_id=14&vmcchk=1

Specs:


-20” 1-9 Twist 4140 Steel M4 Profile Chromoly Barrel
-Chrome Lined Chamber and Bore
-Barrel Chambered 5.56 NATO
-Manganese Phosphate Finish on Barrel, Including Under Sight Base
-M4 Feed Ramps in Barrel Extension
-M4 Feed Ramps Machined into Upper Receiver (Before Coating)
-MIL-Spec M4A3 Flat Top Upper Receiver
-Dry Lubrication Finish in Upper Receiver
-Properly Installed MIL-Spec A2 Flash Hider
-MIL-Spec Type III Hard Coat Anodized Finish
-Laser Engraved T-Markings on Upper Receiver
-Magnetic Particle (MP) and Pressure Tested Bolt
-Chrome Lined M-16 Bolt Carrier with Manganese Phosphate Finish
-MIL-Spec Firing Pin
-F Marked Front Sight Base
-Square Front Sight Post
-MIL-Spec 303 Stainless Steel Gas Tube
-MIL-Spec Hardware
-Barrel Nut Torqued to Proper Weight
-MIL-Spec Charging Handle
-Properly Secured Sling Swivel
-Manufacturers Lifetime Warranty

 

[balloo93]

Build it yourself. I purchased a colt 20" from this guy and he is good to deal with. Prices are right also.

***REDUCED AGAIN*** FN 20" Barrel Chrome lined chamber and bore. 1/7 5.56 $179 $169 $159 - AR15.COM

That is damned tempting, but I would also have to buy all the tools associated with the build (ie barrel nut wrench, receiver block, and bigger vice).

Handguards will more than likely be the MOE rifle length.


I have seen the Core15 setup on Arfcom, but the 1/9 twist steered me away from it. I would like to run heavier rounds for hog hunting.

 

[Texas42]

How heavy do you want to run?

The 1/9 twist rate will run you pretty high. I think a lot of people can shoot the high 60's in a 1/9, The Barnes (copper, which is lighter/longer requires a faster twist rate) tripple shocks 62 grains can be fired out of 1/9 twist rate (not the 70 grainers though).

. . . I guess I wouldn't be afraid to run a good 60 or 70 grain bullet at a pig, even big ones.

That being said, I have a 1/7 twist rate myself. It runs the 55 grain fmj's fine, though I havent' tried anything lighter or any "match 55's."

 

[balloo93]

Bulk of my ammo cache is 55grn. I have some TAP 62grn soft points and the 16" barrel does pretty good with them. I've read that 69grn is about max for a 1/9 twist.

Still wouldn't mind a 20" in 1/7 though. Both of my carbines are 1/9 due to the purpose they were intended for, under 100yrds.

I want this 20" to be a longer reaching shooter. Once I am comfortable shooting it, I want to do a Appleseed event.

 

[MR Redneck]

How heavy do you want to run?

The 1/9 twist rate will run you pretty high. I think a lot of people can shoot the high 60's in a 1/9, The Barnes (copper, which is lighter/longer requires a faster twist rate) tripple shocks 62 grains can be fired out of 1/9 twist rate (not the 70 grainers though).

. . . I guess I wouldn't be afraid to run a good 60 or 70 grain bullet at a pig, even big ones.

That being said, I have a 1/7 twist rate myself. It runs the 55 grain fmj's fine, though I havent' tried anything lighter or any "match 55's."

My 1/9 16" DPMS shoot 55 grain pretty good. That gun need a different trigger because im pulling too dang hard.
You think 60 grain will tighten the group up more at 100 yards with the 1/9 twist?

 

[balloo93]

I did a DIY polish on the stock trigger/hammer and then added the red JP springs. Got the pull weight down to around 4lbs-ish. I then went with a JP speed hammer so that I could have less issues with the CMMG drop in conversion I have. All those things combined make for a decently light clean trigger.

That and a free float hand guard would more than likely improve your groups.

You may see improvement if you switch to a different brand round as well. I sighted mine in with black hills 55grn and noticed that it shoots low with the 62grn rounds.

What ammo are you shooting with?

 

[AusTex]

I can tell you I jump back and forth across the fence all the time. I have seen the difference in velocity between 1/7 and 1/9 with everything from 50 grainers up to 75 smks. For an example you don't want to shoot a rabbit at 25 yards with a 1/7 20" as there is nothing left .. But I have shot 69 through my sbr 1/9 twist 11.5" and it shoots them perfectly. I have shot 75s through a 1/8 barrel and they have also been amazingly accurate. I also know a guy that shoots a 208 amax out of a 1:12 20" 308 barrel with absolutely no problems minus lower feet per second. So iunno what to think. But I would push 1/7 unless you find a killer deal.

I have also killed multiple hogs with 16" 1/9 guns.. It is all about shot placement. Shoot them in the neck and they will drop like a rock. If you are wanting a hog blaster meaning you drive around and if you come up on them you just start shooting scrap this idea and get yourself a ar-10 or I even use my 30-30 lever cause that thing hits hard.

It does cost some money to tool up for the uppers but a dmps multi wrench is a good investment regardless as it works on the flash hider, castle nut, and more. If you have a friend with a shop with vice and a torque wrench you are there. it really is a simple process. But I understand the time and money issue. So if you don't want to do it yourself I would just look for a lightly used bushmaster or any other name brand barrels. Even look for custom used builds.. WOA makes a hell of a 20" barrel. Good luck with the upper and let us know which direction you go.

 

[AusTex]

Get in there pull out your hammer spring and bend it upwards toward the bend. This can lighten your pull up also for cheap.

* also a good quality trigger control group will help this some too. I think good quality lower parts kit is an essential.

 

[Texas42]

My 1/9 16" DPMS shoot 55 grain pretty good. That gun need a different trigger because im pulling too dang hard.
You think 60 grain will tighten the group up more at 100 yards with the 1/9 twist?

nah (at least i dont think so). I'm just saying you can shoot some pretty heavy bullets with a 1/9 twist rate. Not as heavy as the faster twist rates, but enough for medium game in North America.

 

[M. Sage]

I ordered up a Surplus arms lower from AIM yesterday and it's on it's way to Spreadfire!

I have a pinned 16" middy and a 16" m4-type AR already. I'm feeling like a rifle length setup this time and a A1 stock or the ACE rifle stock.

I've been looking at Bravo Company's 20" rifle upper and it has the twist I'm wanting (1/7) but I am open to suggestions as well. I'd want a 1/7 or 1/8 twist and would like to keep it around $400 without BCG and charging handle. I have a spare BCG, hell that's part of the reason I'm building/assembling another one.

Post up suggestions an links if possible.

I'm going to cut against the grain and tell you not to bother with 1:7. The twist is designed specifically to stabilize tracers (which I doubt you'll be shooting too much), and can give you poor accuracy with 55 grain ammo.

I'm going to send you here: RGUNS - AR-15 Upper Receivers -5.56mm: 20 Inch IMO you'd be best with one of the 1:9 uppers (1:9 is a great "shoot everything well" twist). I've got an RGUNS upper with 1:9 twist barrel on my M4, and couldn't be happier. Accuracy is better than I am (and I'm not that bad), even with crappy 55 grain steel-cased Russian ammo.

If you want to get one without bolt group, keep an eye on that page. That's how my M4 upper was sold, and at a great price.

The DPMS upper on that page is a pretty decent deal, too. I got an A2 from them (again, 1:9 unlined) and accuracy is phenomenal in my opinion. Or at least it's as or more phenomenal than I am.

 

[MR Redneck]

Speaking of chromed lined? Are the chrome lined barrels sensitive to ammo? My AR's dont have it and I really dont see the big deal. Somebody told me SS109 will crap a chrome barrel out so I never bought one.
Also, I have a habbit of beating the crap out of my carry AR. It get run hard and close to glowing. I kinda stayed away from the chrome because I dont think it will handle that kind of punishment.
Even though I beat my carry AR to death, it still holds its group.
So why use chrome?

 

[M. Sage]

Chrome is actually much harder than steel. It's also very resistant to corrosion. If you're shooting corrosive ammo (not sure it exists in .223/5.56), it would make sense. It reduces throat erosion, which I don't think is a really big deal on ARs in the first place. It does usually have a negative effect on accuracy, because it's pretty much impossible to get a totally uniform coat on the barrel. It's usually not a noticeable thing though.

The thing is that they cut the hole for the gas block after chroming the barrel, and that's the point that usually wears out first so the chrome doesn't really help.

IMO it actually makes cleaning a bit easier, too.

Chrome would stand up just fine - better than barrel steel. But if you're not damaging your bore already, then there isn't much point in going chrome.

 

[AusTex]

It is true about stabilizing the tracer but the reason it was unstable in the first place is because originally they had 1:12 twist barrels. The tracer they were using was only good to like 400 yards so they elongated the new tracer so it would stay lit till about 800 so what I am saying is it is all about bullet length. If you have ever hand loaded the new 75, 77, or 80+ .223 bullets they are incredibly long rounds also. So although I do agree a 1:9 is a great twist the 1:7 can't hurt if you are going to shoot that heavy. But I would really just ask myself how often I would be shooting that heavy of a round and why? Don't get a 1:7 if you plan on once a year getting a box of 75 grain bullets to shoot and the rest of the time blast off the shelf 55.

You talked about killing things and I wouldn't be shooting to kill with any military loads anyway. I never shoot that stuff myself as I don't want to pay for it. I would recommend the 60grn vmax or if you are going to do longer range kills 75grn amax rounds(but then we get into wind and stopping power). These bullets combined with high velocity are devestating on game to a certain distance. I watched my friend shoot a 180 lb south Texas buck at 100 yards with a 55grn vmax and it was a high shot above the heart.. not perfect by any means and the legs went out from under it and dropped where it stood. Any who shot placement is key and if you are worried about that I would goto a larger caliber to kill things. But back to this discussion about twist.. don't beat yourself up about it there are a ton of 20" upper around just get one and shoot it. If you don't like it swap it for another one. This twist debate goes back and forth though just do a google search and you can read this stuff for hours.

Jcm

 

[M. Sage]

True. Bullet twist does come down entirely to bullet length. Higher weights generally mean longer bullets. But 1:7 is still overkill for even heavier bullets in this caliber. 1:9 will stabilize anything with a lead core weighing from 40-73 grains. :: Ammo Oracle

 

[40Arpent]

The twist is designed specifically to stabilize tracers (which I doubt you'll be shooting too much), and can give you poor accuracy with 55 grain ammo.

I am not a hardcore 1:7 twist fanatic, but I find the quoted statement humorous. You say it as if the main consideration should be based on tracer usage.

How inaccurate are your 1:7 barrels with 55gr ammo? I have two 16's (Colt and LMT) and one 14.5 (Noveske) that will both shoot just over one MOA with 55gr range ammo.

I really think that the 1:7 vs 1:9 battle is over-played. Lastly, nobody can dispute that BCM puts out some of the best products in the industry, and offers customer service second to none.

 

[M. Sage]

I am not a hardcore 1:7 twist fanatic, but I find the quoted statement humorous. You say it as if the main consideration should be based on tracer usage.

How inaccurate are your 1:7 barrels with 55gr ammo? I have two 16's (Colt and LMT) and one 14.5 (Noveske) that will both shoot just over one MOA with 55gr range ammo.

I really think that the 1:7 vs 1:9 battle is over-played. Lastly, nobody can dispute that BCM puts out some of the best products in the industry, and offers customer service second to none.

I didn't say it will. I said it can.

I don't own any 1:7 rifles. Only 1:9. Sighting in my M4 (16" gov't profile barrel), I managed to put two consecutive rounds in the same hole at 100 yards (trust me, that's not something I'm typically capable of, no matter the rifle) using cheap steel-cased Russian 55 gr range ammo.

No dispute about BCM, though I don't have any personal experience with them.

 

[AusTex]

Well this is why excuses are like assholes and opinions are like... opinions .. two bullets in the same hole could have been luck it could have been barrel.. who knows. Not enough control there. I completely agree that 1:9 is perfect for most of what you are doing but I can also tell you that 1:7 helps for shorter barrels and I would personally rather have it in longer barrels than not(Why have a long barrel if you are not shooting at range?). I have shot moa groups with .22 long rifle out of my .223 barrels. 1:7 is not going to prevent you from hitting vitals with a 55grainer... Ar-15s are girls purses.. Where are you going.. when.. and what do you need to bring with you? Just ask yourself what you want and build to those specs... Its exactly why these rifles are easy to build and cheap... It is the reason I have 6+ of them. I have CQB and I have them that are capable of shooting 600 yards. But you could spend $5000 on a custom AR15 and you could not pay me to shoot it in 20mph wind... The best groups I have ever shot with an ar15 were with 52grain SMKS and any twist they sell will shoot those.. Just go do it.. best experience you can get.

Edit* hard to tell M.Sage but I am agreeing with you.