Remington files Chapter 11 bankruptcy

[stdreb27]

Lol. I see the subject now. Sorry.


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[diesel1959]

I've only ever owned one Remington--a Model 870 Wingmaster made back in the mid-Sixties (GREAT shotgun). There's no way in hell you could convince me to buy any newer Remington long guns or handguns. They make nothing I'm interested in, even if I was willing to accept shitty QC.

 

[Younggun]

Well, think this thread has pretty well summed up why Remington is in trouble.

 

[SQLGeek]

The Gun Collective has said that Remington failed to innovate. I accept that but I'd go further. They failed to recognize changes and innovations from other makers and failed even to copy the good ideas of others. Even that strategy would have stretched out their time as a relevant rifle maker.

Sticking their fingers in their ears (the Ford Pinto strategy) and pretending that 700s weren't firing on their own sure didn't help either.

 

[benenglish]

Sticking their fingers in their ears (the Ford Pinto strategy) and pretending that 700s weren't firing on their own sure didn't help either.

Very good point. Even Mike Walker recognized there was a problem, designed a solution, and presented it to management. When Remington refused to implement it, they pretty much either assured their own destruction (debatable) or they demonstrated a management culture that would ultimately lead to oblivion (which I accept as axiomatic). The sale of the company to a mismanaging entity was a direct result of that culture and was the last nail in the coffin.

I'm surprised the fall has taken this long.

 

[TxStetson]

I have slowly been moving away from the 700 platform over to the Savage rifles.
I sold my last 700 over 2 years ago.

I also reduced my Remington inventory to nothing. The last one I kept was a 788 instead of the 700’s.

 

[Dawico]

Decades ago Remington made a pump rifle known as the Model 141.
The 141 was chambered in a number of propriatary cartridges that were ballistically identical to Winchester rounds.
.25 Remington = .25-35 Winchester
.30 Remington = .30-30 Winchester
.32 Remington = .32 Winchester Special
.35 Remington = Still popular today.
These were rimless cartridges for use in pump and semi-auto guns.
I've always wondered why these died off.

You really wonder why they died off? Your whole post spelled it out for me.

Not sure if you are serious or not.

 

[Eli]

Didn't he jump on the original Assualt Weapons Ban bandwagon, or am I thinking of some other gun maker?

That was him! Of course, he hadn't reached room temperature when the company started selling full-capacity magazines for the Mini-14 and anything else they made.

Eli

 

[Eli]

Everything Cerberus touched, is worse off today.

Not entirely true - Chrysler was better after Cerberus bankrupted them, there's probably others as well! Why do people give Cerberus money?

Eli

(I corrected your spelling in the quote)

 

[pronstar]

Not entirely true - Chrysler was better after Cerberus bankrupted them, there's probably others as well! Why do people give Cerberus money?

Eli

(I corrected your spelling in the quote)

That's because Fiat took over at that point.

Nardelli and Cerberus ran them into the ground.



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[DwnRange]

I have slowly been moving away from the 700 platform over to the Savage rifles. I sold my last 700 over 2 years ago.

The Rem 700 receiver is the most utilized rifle receiver ever and no Savage can match the accuracy of these Remys here (the top 2 both with custom built Kreiger barrels).

223.....

30-06.....

and here a factory made 308 AAC-SD (won in a raffle)

With actions going for $500 dollars I buy Remys cheap off knuckleheads for $2-300 bucks and have my old rifle builder turn 'em into tack drivers at any range.

The Savage rifle is the best outta the box at the 800 yard range off the back porch in 2018, save a few old Weatherbys and Kleinguenthers, but it still won't make 7-800 yards MOA. For nothing touches a properly custom built Remy 700 for accuracy at range.

 

[Younggun]

Wait, you comparing an Out of the box Savage to a custom build Remington to say the Savage can never be as good?

Sorry, but that's makes 0% sense.

 

[LOCKHART]

I'll just say in defense of the 700 Remington that our armed forces use Remington 700's as our basic sniper rifles. I haven't seen ANY Savages in that role. Just sayin.....

 

[DwnRange]

Wait, you comparing an Out of the box Savage to a custom build Remington to say the Savage can never be as good?

Sorry, but that's makes 0% sense.

The military don't use Savage bolt rifles, they use Remington and they do that for good reason and the old M40 weren't custom as it's AAC-SD variant above shows. Selling a rifle with a receiver that is in an entirely different "class" as a rifle ya turned around and bought makes 0% sense to me......

oops - looks like Lockhart already made my point.

 

[jrbfishn]

Most, if not all the Remington 700 actions the military have have are older ones too. I doubt they have many of the newer ones. When QC falls off, they have clauses in the contracts to have them replaced or cancell the contracts too. Other gun manufacturers have found the hard way that depending on nothing but military contracts is a recipe for bankruptcy. Unless your company is set up to do that of course. Remington, is not. They depend mostly on sales to the public. Even if QC for the military is spot on, letting it slip for the general public is a disaster. As they are finding out.

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[DwnRange]

As they are finding out.

FWIW, and to the OP - the old 1912 Remington UMC has been dead as a company since 2007, June IIRC - when CCM - Cerberus Capital Management bought 'em........., so this means very little to those that follow firearms companies.

 

[Younggun]

The military doesn't buy based on "best". It buys based on a baseline standard and price.

Claiming "X is best because the military uses it" implies that the military places quality or accuracy as the highest standard and pays whatever it needs to achieve that. Look at any of the military contracts for weapons and equipment and you will find that almost always it's about the ability to supply the item combined with cost that wins, as long as the minimum standard is met, typically that standard is met by multiple sources and it's not the one that surpasses the standard to the greatest degree that wins.

 

[Younggun]

Just look at the M9 pistol.

 

[LOCKHART]

Uh, you might check out Carlos Hathcocks sniper rifle. It was a Winchester model 70. I don't believe Winchester supplied those to the armed forces. He used what he thought was the best. The 700 Remingtons were being used at the same time. I'm sure if the Army and Marines were being issued rifles made by the lowest bidder, then there would have been lots of Savage rifles there. There weren't! Only Remington 700's.

 

[Dawico]

............ no Savage can match the accuracy of these Remys here (the top 2 both with custom built Kreiger barrels).



The Savage rifle is the best outta the box ........................, but it still won't make 7-800 yards MOA. For nothing touches a properly custom built Remy 700 for accuracy at range.

I beg to differ.

Plus, again, you are comparing custom rifles to out of the box rifles.

Don't get me wrong, the 700 action can be made into great rifles, it just isn't done by Remington.