SBR Parts and Experiences? I am starting a build.

Mk12 Mod M or Mk18 Mod 12? Other?

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SmokeyWhisper

New Member
Jun 5, 2014
39
6
Ft. Worth
Haven't posted much but I do enjoy the reads. Now its my turn to post. Believe me, I know where the search bar is too.

Because I desire an (insert tactical term I.E. CQB, SBR, Close In, Danger Close) rifle, I am starting an AR-15 SBR build now and would like to hear some experiences with any part(s) listed and how it worked, or didn't work, for your applications.

I already have a 16" 'Do All' Bushmaster 'M4gery' for just shooting 55gr-62gr what ever type loads and I have an 18", precision built, 600+ yard lead launcher that eats the 77gr stuff that I built specifically for accuracy, repeat-ability and semi-auto function by sacrificing size and weight for the mentioned accuracy. 9-10lbs with scope and A2 stock. Now, I am going the other way. No need for a premium air gauged Douglas barrel in this one. This one is for 2 things:
1. Closer targets (50-300 yards with 55gr-62gr. Max 400yrd with 77gr keeping a decent grouping)
2. Maneuverability. (In and out of vehicles, rooms, dense thickets etc.)
3. Fast target acquisition and engagement (Sight with wide field of view and easy to use reticle. Minimal bullet drop compensations but no mil-dots, range finder etchings etc.)

It will have a Specwar 5.56 suppressor so I will be using the supplied Flash Hider with a minimum 10" barrel. No tooth fillings rattling muzzle brakes! No 10"-11" arguments here. 100fps-200fps isn't anything I care about. You hit a target with a 2,000fps projectile, it's going to do something- so the size of your barrel doesn't matter. 1" MOA isn't in the vocabulary either. Just a normal 4" or less grouping at 100 yards. I am specifically avoiding piston type uppers because I already have an AK and/or I can't afford the HK 416 upper (yet) which would be the ideal package. What I do care about in order is..
1. Reliability over hundreds of rounds, if not thousands, without cleaning and only minimal re-lube.
2. Compact size (it is an SBR so I'm making it short)
3. Light Weight
So here is where I am starting. Spikes Zombie Stripped Lower is waiting on the U.S. Government and their stickers. My build is focusing on a TEOTWAWKI, Zombie epidemic, mass hysteria and looters. A gun that is used where speed, light weight, in-out maneuverability are key but something that will work %100 of the time. So I have narrowed things down to these few and I already have or I have ordered:
Spikes Zombie Stripped Lower--> http://www.spikestactical.com/lower-multi-forged-zombie-livedead-markings-p-566.html
Innovative Arms WAR upper--> http://innovativearms.com/war/
SilencerCo Specwar 5.56 Suppressor--> https://silencerco.com/silencers/specwar/#tab-2
Nickel Boron bolt carrier group for easy cleaning

So that is where I am starting. Looking at things like:
Noveske Barrels are a 'possibility'--> http://www.noveske.com/collections/barrels/products/diplomat-5-56mm-barrel
Tac-Con's 3MR Trigger--> https://tacconusa.com/products/view.php?id=21
Daniel Defense barrels are a little cheaper--> https://danieldefense.com/cold-hamm...-3-5-56mm-carbine-1-7-government-profile.html
Daniel Defense MK18 RIS II Rail (if I can find one)--> https://www.danieldefense.com/rail-systems/ris-ii/mk18-rail-interface-system-ii-ris-ii-1123.html

SO... ideas? Experiences? Recommendations? Free floating is almost a must. So is a well made gas block but everything else is optional based on price. Stocks? Triggers? Rails? Barrels? Grips? Sights? Firing pins? Am leaning towards a red dot type with low profile BUIS, possibly a EoTech Zombie XPS2-Z2. Please avoid the "I would buy..." type of comments. I am looking more for the "I bought a... and liked it because of... or didn't like it because of..." Real experience are worth their weight in gold. ANY INFORMATION ON THE WAR UPPER WILL BE THOROUGHLY READ AND RE-READ as it is a whole new beast to play with. Especially looking for experiences with that particular part.

For those of you keeping score at home, I did go to my local gun shop and spoke with them about suppressing an SBR. Pro's and con's of pistons vs DI. Parts and advise and the sort of questioning old timers know how to answer. Guys, you can order stuff online all day at $20 less per part, but when you support your local guy and have them involved and buy some their marked up parts, you not only support them allowing them to stay open, but you also have someone experienced to ask about or fix what you broke who may just be a short drive away. Just think about that before you order a lot of stuff online. I'll pay that extra few bucks every now and then to get to someone who knows the answer already. My old gun smith... $60. Doesn't matter if you wanted... a trigger job on a 1911, a pinned muzzle device, fixing grandpa's old wall hanger or having a barrel threaded. It was always $60. That was it. Now how much does the online place charge? $100? $140? And you have to pay shipping? Think about that.

Thanks
 
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The Lox

Well-Known
BANNED!!!
Jun 6, 2010
1,250
36
Farmers Branch
The Spec war can is nice, but its heavy, so I would go as short as you can on the barrel. 11.5 or 12.5 to me is the ideal SBR length. Given that you are using 5.56 you can use the flash hider or the muzzle break QD attachment, for my on all my SBRs I use the muzzle break.

I have had all sorts of rails and handguards and I find myself coming back to two brands that I will use from here on out. Troy and BCM. Both are slim line and you can get a keymod in the Troy rails now.

As for barrels and uppers again, best quality I have come across is Wilson Combat and BCM. If you want a great battle rifle go with a BCM 1/7 and call it a day. If you want something that punches small groups, go with a Wilson Combat barrel. I have two in 6.8 and they are both better shooting than I can accomplish.

You shouldn't require a free float barrel on an SBR. Nice to have sure, but given its purpose free float vs non is not going to make a huge difference. The A2 front sight post is the most reliable gas block system, and you can always cut it down and slip a handguard over it without using a lo pro gas block. With 5.56 you don't really need an adjustable gas block either, especially if running suppressed.

All of the other stuff is just up to your preference I think, go with what you like.
 

Tejano Scott

TGT Addict
Jun 6, 2011
8,141
38
The Woodlands
Big fan of the BCM 11.5" barrel. Read up, there's plenty of stuff out there that discusses the benefit of going 11.5" vs 10.5". I also love the BCM key mod rail. One thing I've learned with my SBRs, keep em light as possible.
 

Techna

Member
Apr 12, 2011
91
18
Magnolia, Texas
Big fan of the BCM 11.5" barrel. Read up, there's plenty of stuff out there that discusses the benefit of going 11.5" vs 10.5". I also love the BCM key mod rail. One thing I've learned with my SBRs, keep em light as possible.
These are the main components I selected when it was time to assemble my 5.56 upper. Very happy with it.
 

SmokeyWhisper

New Member
Jun 5, 2014
39
6
Ft. Worth
Glad to hear favors for a BMC barrel. I was leaning towards them on the price. $50 less than other comparable brands. I have decided that I am going to do the furniture in FDE and have decided on a forearm/rail. --> http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=186751&CAT=9623
A bit pricy but it will pair nicely with my MK12 Mod 0. Plus, mom likes the color and if she's going to be out there 'Operating Operationally' then I think the black recover group with FDE is a good choice.
So.... Barrel--> BCM!... but what profile?

And stocks? Troy PDW looks nice --> https://troyind.com/products/pdw-stock-kit-blk
but its pricy and I would like to have the option of 'tuning' with buffers with a more 'traditional look' but newer designs.
 

Texasslinger

Active Member
May 18, 2012
481
18
houston
Dang! Y'all got some champagne tastes on sbrs. I got a fully assembled spikes lower with pistol buffer tube "multi caliber". $280
Radical firearms 9in upper
$200
Quality bolt carrier $150
Primary arms red dot $80
Shots like a dream! Got it all set up as a pistol. Sent paperwork in. Dialed in worked the kinks out and love it. Especially looks bad ass with 40 rd mag. Pretty lightweight.
Pictures is with 30 rd. For silenced fire I put the 10in 300 blk on. With my osprey 45 it's scary quiet.



How do we arm the other 11??
 

MCA

Member
Mar 5, 2014
92
16
Priddy, TX
My favorite SBR/Pistol barrel is from AR15 Performance. 12.5" mid gas, Melonite treated, Wylde chamber, 5R rifled 1:8 twist. All for $189 shipped. Can't beat it at triple the price. I have one of his 6.8 SPC 12.5" on my SBR (edit ... he has some of them in stock right now as well ... a rarity!) ... makes for a nice compact deer/hog rifle for most situations.
 
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SmokeyWhisper

New Member
Jun 5, 2014
39
6
Ft. Worth
Note for the moderator. I realize this may or should have been posted in the gunsmithing section but since it deals with NFA short barrel rifle, I posted it here. Although it could be easily be done in a pistol form and thereby being placed in the gunsmith section would be appropriate.

Updates: I appreciate all of the suggestions and I'm looking up and reading up on some of the harder decisions to make. Barrel is the toughest one. The other stuff hit me like a ton of bricks. I decided that I could go ahead and match the look to a rifle that I already own, and still have the benefits of the SBR. Building these is just as unique to a person as is their personality. Some people like to have the most expensive, some people like to have the cheapest, some people like to have what works, and some people just like to have lots of the shelf. There are many different ways and options to choose from. Mine is going in a traditional fashion, but putting my own special idea into the mix. I will give you an example. Taking a Rossi lever action 92 pistol, threading the barrel, and adding an MP5 A3 collapsible style stock. Suppressed .38.

Well now I have decided to make my SBR mimic a full-sized MK12 Mod 0.
Forearm--> http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=186747

Rail--> http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=186757

Flip up front sight and gas block-->http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=186686

Rear sight--> http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=186822

It should end up looking like the 3rd picture--> http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=792810&CAT=4814

And very similar to-->http://rs30.pbsrc.com/albums/c347/TRG42/ar pics/CopyofMK12Mod013.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

The only differences being a LWCR Ultra Compact Buttstock--> https://www.lwrci.com/p-361-uciw-ultra-compact-stock-kit.aspx

And a Silencerco 3 prong flash hider-->http://www.store.silencerco.com/products/specwar-trifecta-flash-hider

I did order the muzzle break as well, but I think I will put that on my Mossberg bolt action. Now I am just needing a lower parts group/take down pins and a trigger.

Barrel Update. I decided to take a risk on the barrel. Not going with a super known manufacrure but one that has very positive reviews and who's part matches or mimic's very closely to the Douglas 18" barrels found on the Mk12's. 416 steel, button rifled, guaranteed 1 MOA and for less than BCM, DD, Noveske etc.--> https://www.odinworks.com/ODIN_Works_223_Wylde_10_5_Barrel_p/b-223-10.htm

Grip is just going to be an Magpul MOE for now.
 
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Tejano Scott

TGT Addict
Jun 6, 2011
8,141
38
The Woodlands
SBR mk12, love it! I think that will look pretty bad ass. Can't wait to see pics.

and don't worry, your thread is fine here in the NFA section. We have build threads here from time to time.
 

SmokeyWhisper

New Member
Jun 5, 2014
39
6
Ft. Worth
SBR mk12, love it! I think that will look pretty bad ass. Can't wait to see pics.
I'm calling it a Mk12 Mod M(Micro or Mini) or Mk18 Mod 12. I will make a POLL for the name as soon as I figure out how.

Update: Poll Added. Now if I could just get a lawyer to help me trademark and copyright.

Update: Spikes Lower parts kit--> http://www.spikestactical.com/lower-kit-spikes-standard-parts-kit-without-fc-trigger-group-p-1155.html

Decided on a trigger too. The Super Dynamic 3 Gun (SD-3G) Trigger. -->
https://geissele.com/super-dynamic-3-gun-trigger.html

I figure that I am going to want to be shooting this really fast. I am going to want to be shitting this really fast. These suppressor is full auto rated, the forearm does not absorb heat, & I will need a nice trigger to blast. I have never had a flat trigger, but my Geissele SSA-E in my MK12 is very, very nice for target shooting. I guess I am brand loyal. Other seriously considered triggers were the Tac-Con 3MR, the new Franklin Armory Binary, Hiperfire 24c and Timney Competition trigger. Brand loyalty, and pair that with a clone of a clone, I think I made the right choice.

I don't often get to have the luxury of buying or getting higher end parts for a build. There is nothing wrong with a Plain Jane ar-15, but it is a sweet feeling to have picked each part individually and to put it together in such a way that it really makes it yours.

I will be sure to take a lot of pictures on my build. The only things I am concerned about are the gas port on the barrel and the WAR upper. I am sure that I will need to visit a gunsmith for those proper fittings.
 
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