SBR Question

[Sugar Land]

Thanks Pete

 

[ZX9RCAM]

What part of waiting 6 months to get a fucking muffler for your gun do you consider easy?!?!? LOL

Patience is a virtue......

 

[40Arpent]

Patience is a virtue......

Easy for the intelligent man, who got a shitpile of suppressors back when the wait wasn't so long, to say.

 

[40Arpent]

Thanks Pete

Just keepin' it real, Chuckie.

 

[AaronP220]

Pete keeps it the realest of the real. He's so real he's fake.

Diva.

 

[kurt]

Silly...I'm a NFA dealer, and I don't make people leave their lowers. Now that I think about it, I usually sell them a "other" lower ("multi" caliber), and then help them fill out their very own Form 1's. I don't need MORE stuff in storage; the racks of "pending" silencers are bad enough

My experience (as a dealer, manufacturer, and owner of various NFA stuff) with the SBR/SBS is that they want to know exactly what barrel length, overall length, and caliber you have...when the Form 1/Form 2 is submitted. Once I get the Form 1/Form 4 back, I usually then send in a letter detailing what OTHER barrel lengths/calibers/configurations the (now paper'ed) in which the SBR/SBS may be found. Lately, that has been a matrix of bore diameters down the side, and barrel lengths rounded to the inch across the top because I don't know what I may want to build in ten years. Phased plasma rifle, perhaps, but I digress... Eventually, that letter will come back "approved" and you are good to go.

Until then, you are technically only legal with what is on the Form 1/Form4.

The only problem I ever had was a note on one of my matrix letters asking who made 7" 50BMG...





Alex

So I can purchase a short barrelled upper and possess it prior registering the lower? I fully understand the upper could not be attached to the lower. This is a procedural question as I just would not care to try to explain it to ATF.

 

[Renegade]

So I can purchase a short barrelled upper and possess it prior registering the lower? I fully understand the upper could not be attached to the lower. This is a procedural question as I just would not care to try to explain it to ATF.

No, almost everything in that post is either wrong or bad advice.

 

[Bithabus]

No, almost everything in that post is either wrong or bad advice.

Which post?

 

[Renegade]

Which post?

He quoted post #14.

 

[wakal]

My post?

Wrong in what way?

Internet cowboys are great fun; lets hear you yodel...I'm always interested in learning something!

I've had Form 2's kicked back for attempting to specify multiple calibers and barrel lengths on the first submission (not as an amendment), and have both Form 1 and Form 4 SBR come back with the "caliber/length" matrix amendment approved. I have never had an amendment DISapproved, as a point of fact.






Alex

 

[Renegade]

My post?

Wrong in what way?

This is wrong:

Until then, you are technically only legal with what is on the Form 1/Form4.

 

[SidewaysTA]

How is that wrong?

 

[Renegade]

How is that wrong?

There is no law making it illegal.

 

[wakal]

Not much of a yodel.

Or helpful.

Or, well, accurate. You get what you pay for on the internet

What is specified on the ATF-F-5320-1, ATF-F-5320-2, or ATF-F-5320-4 is what is allowed under NFA, 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53. There is a caveat according to BATFE rules (but not any discernable law, which seems to be how the BATFE likes it), as per (below) which I always found amusing:

Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?
If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.

 

[Renegade]

Not much of a yodel.

Or helpful.

Or, well, accurate. You get what you pay for on the internet

You made the claim:

Until then, you are technically only legal with what is on the Form 1/Form4.

Back it up by showing us which LAW in the US Code makes it illegal to put a 12.5 BBL on an SBR when the Form1/Form4 said 14.5 inch BBL.

What is specified on the ATF-F-5320-1, ATF-F-5320-2, or ATF-F-5320-4 is what is allowed under NFA, 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53. There is a caveat according to BATFE rules (but not any discernable law, which seems to be how the BATFE likes it), as per (below) which I always found amusing:

You realize what you posted REFUTES your own claim?

 

[macshooter]

The only problem I ever had was a note on one of my matrix letters asking who made 7" 50BMG...

LOL. Wow...

Good info. I was going to say, even if you only had one shorty upper for each registered SBR lower, you could still swap the uppers with any other non-registered lower, which means you have the constructive possession issue (which probably isn't really an issue if your upper is exactly as described on your form 1). But if every configuration you use is on paper, with a letter to ATF about it, then I think all the bases are covered. At least that's what I'm gonna do.

 

[wakal]

You realize that what I said was "There is a caveat according to BATFE rules (but not any discernable law, which seems to be how the BATFE likes it)..."

26 USC 5841 REGISTRATION OF FIREARMS, (C) How registered Each manufacturer shall notify the Secretary of the manufacture of a firearm in such manner as may by regulations be prescribed and such notification shall effect the registration of the firearm required by this section. Each importer, maker, and transferor of a firearm shall, prior to importing, making, or transferring a firearm, obtain authorization in such manner as required by this chapter or regulations issued thereunder to import, make, or transfer the firearm, and such authorization shall effect the registration of the firearm required by this section.

The BATFE has decided that the "as may by regulations be proscribed" is via the atf-f-5320-1 and atf-f-5320-4, Section 4(b), 4(e), 4(f).

Meaning, under 26 USC 5641(c) we are required to "notify" of each "manufacture" as the appropriate agency says. Right now, that is the magic forms that somehow make a perfectly innocent item "legal" by merely paying a fine and filling out a piece of paper. The form is clear, and wants one barrel length, one caliber, and so forth.

If you want to "prove" me wrong, please provide some backup other than "because I said so." While not particularly clear, and with "guidance" written by BATFE on a whim (and often contradictory), the actual USC and the forms are what we have to play by. You can, of course, do whatever you want but often there are...imperial entanglements.




Alex

 

[ZX9RCAM]

My head hurts.....

 

[Renegade]

Glad to see you found the section of US Code that deals with NFA.

Now all you need to do is post the law that makes it a crime to put a 12.5 BBL on an SBR when the Form1/Form4 said 14.5 inch BBL.

Until then, you are technically only legal with what is on the Form 1/Form4.

 

[wakal]

Good info. I was going to say, even if you only had one shorty upper for each registered SBR lower, you could still swap the uppers with any other non-registered lower, which means you have the constructive possession issue (which probably isn't really an issue if your upper is exactly as described on your form 1). But if every configuration you use is on paper, with a letter to ATF about it, then I think all the bases are covered. At least that's what I'm gonna do.

I may view the "constructive possession" issue a bit differently...having a pipe cutter or a hacksaw and a shotgun AT THE SAME TIME, why, you could hack that barrel right off...

Silly stuff.


Alex