SBR Question

[wakal]

Renagade,

I did...USC and the applicable form says what it says. If you have something that DOESN'T match the form, then you have not followed the code and are thus in violation. There is no other way to be legal than to have the properly approved form.

If there is, please show it to me.

While you are at it, what real interest do you have in the subject? Lawyer, FFL/dealer, FFL/Manufacturer, SOT, collector, interested bystander, mudslinger...all of the above?

For example, I run a company with an 07/SOT. I have to play by the rules. All the time. No matter what I think of those rules.


Alex

 

[Renegade]

Renagade,

I did...USC and the applicable form says what it says. If you have something that DOESN'T match the form, then you have not followed the code and are thus in violation. There is no other way to be legal than to have the properly approved form.

I am still yet to see any law that makes it a crime to put a 12.5 BBL on a SBR that was built with 14.5 BBL. Nor have I seen it on the form.

While you are at it, what real interest do you have in the subject? Lawyer, FFL/dealer, FFL/Manufacturer, SOT, collector, interested bystander, mudslinger...all of the above?

I want to promote the use of firearms especially NFA and refuting all the incorrect information ( you need a class 3 license, they can search your house, etc), that dissuades folks from doing so is my purpose. And all except mudslinger/lawyer.

 

[40Arpent]

Now all you need to do is post the law that makes it a crime to put a 12.5 BBL on an SBR when the Form1/Form4 said 14.5 inch BBL.

I am pretty lost in all this techno-jargon, but I'd like to ask a couple questions related to the quote above that might help me when I got to register my first SBR. Do the forms require you to specify barrel length? If yes, then is there also something else stated in the regulations that allows you to swap to other short bbl's of different lengths without any need to notify the ATF? Like I said, I am lost so your help will be much appreciated.

 

[Renegade]

I am pretty lost in all this techno-jargon, but I'd like to ask a couple questions related to the quote above that might help me when I got to register my first SBR. Do the forms require you to specify barrel length? If yes, then is there also something else stated in the regulations that allows you to swap to other short bbl's of different lengths without any need to notify the ATF? Like I said, I am lost so your help will be much appreciated.

If applicable, you need to specify BBL length. Of course if you are building an SBR with 6 BBLs of different length, the form is not designed for that. But let us continue you with the simple example of a AR-15 SBR. So you sign it under penalty that that is what you intend to make and register. So long as you do that, you are OK.

Once it is registered and built, there is no law or penalty if you change out your 14.5 BBL for a 12.5 BBL.

 

[40Arpent]

If applicable, you need to specify BBL length.

I am a "general consumer" interested in assembling a SBR AR15 by registering one lower. Will it be applicable in my case to specify bbl length? I think you implied yes, but I want to make sure

 

[Bithabus]

I am a "general consumer" interested in assembling a SBR AR15 by registering one lower. Will it be applicable in my case to specify bbl length? I think you implied yes, but I want to make sure

You have to specify barrel length

 

[Renegade]

I am a "general consumer" interested in assembling a SBR AR15 by registering one lower. Will it be applicable in my case to specify bbl length? I think you implied yes, but I want to make sure

You must fill out form completely, that includes OAL, BBL, caliber, etc. Lowers do not get registered, only complete firearms.

 

[40Arpent]

You must fill out form completely, that includes OAL, BBL, caliber, etc. Lowers do not get registered, only complete firearms.

Thanks, much appreciated!

So next question: If a complete AR15 is what is registered, how is the upper tied to that registration (since it has no serial number), is it merely by the physical description as written on the form?

 

[Renegade]

Thanks, much appreciated!

So next question: If a complete AR15 is what is registered, how is the upper tied to that registration (since it has no serial number), is it merely by the physical description as written on the form?

It isn't tied at all.

 

[40Arpent]

It isn't tied at all.

I told you I am clueless, can you be a little more specific. If the complete firearm is registered, and the upper (which is specified by it's length on the form) is a component of the complete firearm, how is it not tied to the registration?

 

[SidewaysTA]

Renegade, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

First you say:

You must fill out form completely, that includes OAL, BBL, caliber, etc. Lowers do not get registered, only complete firearms..

Then you state the upper assembly isn't tied to the registration.

Which is it?

If the complete firearm is registered (as you said above) then the upper assembly must be included in that registration which would be identifiable by the specifications you provide (since it isn't serialized like the lower) on the form 1. So I don't see how you can arbitrarily change those specifications without prior approval from the ATF. I mean, if they don't care about barrel length, overall size and caliber then why would they ask for them.

I think when I'm ready to build an SBR I will be contacting Sean Cody and get legal advice from him concerning these issues. That's probably the best thing to do for anybody wanting to build an SBR, talk to a lawyer who specializes in NFA laws.

Mike

 

[Renegade]

I told you I am clueless, can you be a little more specific. If the complete firearm is registered, and the upper (which is specified by it's length on the form) is a component of the complete firearm, how is it not tied to the registration?

I guess I am not sure I know what you mean by "tied". I mean you could change those parts out at will, just like you can change out stock, broken trigger, forearm, install drop-in trigger, add scope etc. But you cannot change out the lower receiver.

 

[Renegade]

Renegade, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

First you say:



Then you state the upper assembly isn't tied to the registration.

Which is it?

See above post #52.

 

[SidewaysTA]

Well as far as parts replacement I don't think the ATF cares what style or brand of parts you use but if you have to replace your 12 inch barrel, then I would think you would need to replace it with another 12 inch barrel.

If you replace your 12 inch barrel with a 10 inch barrel then the firearm has changed and doesn't match the specifications in the form 1. I can't see the ATF approving of that unless you ask them as wakal stated in a previous post.

Seems iffy to me.

Mike

 

[Renegade]

If you replace your 12 inch barrel with a 10 inch barrel then the firearm has changed and doesn't match the specifications in the form 1. I can't see the ATF approving of that unless you ask them as wakal stated in a previous post.

Seems iffy to me.

Mike

As I already pointed out ,there is no law preventing this. There is no law requiring your SBR to be in the exact config that the form 1 states.

When I registered my truck, it was Silver. Now it is Black. No foul.

 

[40Arpent]

There is no law requiring your SBR to be in the exact config that the form 1 states.

So, having an inaccurate form is ok?

 

[wakal]

Hmmm...Renegade, you might want to (yet again) to do your research AND accurately assess the resulting information. TXDOT tracks vehicle color as a "change"...they even have a handy color chart to make sure you report the correct CURRENT color of your vehicle...

RTS Release Support

Title your Vehicle

 

[Renegade]

Hmmm...Renegade, you might want to (yet again) to do your research AND accurately assess the resulting information. TXDOT tracks vehicle color as a "change"...they even have a handy color chart to make sure you report the correct CURRENT color of your vehicle...

RTS Release Support

Title your Vehicle

No offense, but it is not illegal to paint your car in Texas.

When I registered my truck, it was Silver. Now it is Black. No foul.

That means I correctly filled out ALL Texas Motor vehicle forms. It is not illegal in Texas to paint it a different color after you title it.

Not sure why this is so hard for some.

 

[Renegade]

So, having an inaccurate form is ok?

The form must be accurate when you fill it out. If later you change the config of your gun, no laws are broken. So if you have a proper Form 4 for a Colt LE6933 (BBL=11.5), and later you permanently add a muzzle brake for a silencer and the BBL is now 14.5, no crime has been committed. Or if you change out the Colt TeleStock and put on a full rifle stock and the OAL changes, no crime is committed.

 

[40Arpent]

No offense, but it is not illegal to paint your car in Texas.

Where did he say it was illegal to paint your car?