Short Rifles

[MR Redneck]

Im thinking about building me a new AR15 in a shorty.. Something I can conceal under my jacket.
What would be the shortest version I could build and still maintain a legal rifle length?
I think this would make a great winter time tool.......
I dont want something that'll need all the class 3 or a bunch of stamps on it. I have a couple of recievers and want to build some new stuff.

 

[majormadmax]

A short barreled rifle is defined in US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter, Sec. 921...

(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

So, overall is rifle length must be at least 26", and barrel barrel length must be at least 16"

The ATF has taken the position that firearms having folding or collapsible stocks are properly measured for overall length with the stock fully extended.

 

[MR Redneck]

I got to thinking, a under mag folding stock AK would be pretty much the choice. Get some short mags, and that sucked would fit under my jacket.

 

[IXLR8]

How about something like a Kel-Tec PLR-16 Long Range Pistol 223. There were several similar configurations by other manufacturers.

Just do not add a forward grip, then you are breaking the law.

PLR-16

 

[MR Redneck]

That would be considered a pistol. Im looking to conceal a rifle. A SHTF rig.

 

[majormadmax]

I got to thinking, a under mag folding stock AK would be pretty much the choice. Get some short mags, and that sucked would fit under my jacket.

Then a Yugo M70AB2 with a single point sling is what you want...

 

[Texas1911]

How about something like a Kel-Tec PLR-16 Long Range Pistol 223. There were several similar configurations by other manufacturers.

Just do not add a forward grip, then you are breaking the law.

PLR-16

They make a model that is an underfolder, and frankly, they shoot pretty decently too.

 

[MR Redneck]

They make a model that is an underfolder, and frankly, they shoot pretty decently too.

That is exactly what im looking for... I found some Romainian WasRuf with chromed linned barrels for $429

 

[Texas1911]

That is exactly what im looking for... I found some Romainian WasRuf with chromed linned barrels for $429

The Kel-Tec is an SU-16 underfolder ... I sighted one in for a guy and the thing is ultralight, 2 MOA accurate, and seemed to work just fine. It'd be a great backpacking gun.

 

[MR Redneck]

The Kel-Tec is an SU-16 underfolder ... I sighted one in for a guy and the thing is ultralight, 2 MOA accurate, and seemed to work just fine. It'd be a great backpacking gun.

I just looked at the Kel Tec site. Check out the SUB-2000... COOOOL.

 

[M. Sage]

I got to thinking, a under mag folding stock AK would be pretty much the choice. Get some short mags, and that sucked would fit under my jacket.

The MSAR AUG clones are pretty short, too. Not a lot longer than the folding stock AKs, and usually lighter. The Yugo underfolder with loaded 30 round mag weighs in at right around 10 lbs. A 20 round mag might bring it down to 9 1/2... The 20 is pretty ideal since it's the same length as the pistol grip.

You could always go with an AK or AR pistol, though. Build a brand new, bare receiver without a stock and with a short barrel and it's legally a pistol. Just don't ever put a stock on it.

 

[jsimmons]

If it's a SHTF weapon, why are you worried about it being "legal"?

 

[MR Redneck]

If it's a SHTF weapon, why are you worried about it being "legal"?

Good point!! I really aint, but I would like to have something legal to carry anyway. Honestly if the SHTF, I myself would give a crap about what legal anyhow. My frist thoughts of legal is how to protect my own and keep a bunch of rioting assholes out of my stuff!

 

[MR Redneck]

The MSAR AUG clones are pretty short, too. Not a lot longer than the folding stock AKs, and usually lighter. The Yugo underfolder with loaded 30 round mag weighs in at right around 10 lbs. A 20 round mag might bring it down to 9 1/2... The 20 is pretty ideal since it's the same length as the pistol grip.

You could always go with an AK or AR pistol, though. Build a brand new, bare receiver without a stock and with a short barrel and it's legally a pistol. Just don't ever put a stock on it.

As a short rifle, I would still want one that would be considered a rifle. Keep me from getting into trouble. The kel-tec sub 2000 seems to be a pretty good choice.

 

[majormadmax]

If it's a SHTF weapon, why are you worried about it being "legal"?

For one, I wouldn't trust a SHTF weapon that I haven't had plenty of range time with! And while some might push their luck by taking something illegal to the range, I for one would not risk it.

Plus, there are plenty of SHTF weapons out there that are legal, so why risk having one that isn't?!?

 

[MR Redneck]

For one, I wouldn't trust a SHTF weapon that I haven't had plenty of range time with! And while some might push their luck by taking something illegal to the range, I for one would not risk it.

Plus, there are plenty of SHTF weapons out there that are legal, so why risk having one that isn't?!?

Thats the whole idea behind my topic.. I got plenty of AR's, 12 gauges, and hanguns that have no legal issues at all. Matter a fact, I dont have nothing that would have any issues.
The only problem I have is conceal carry. I dont have a CHL and wont never have one either. If I could carry my riot 12 gauge around without issues I would. Since the Texas law has that dumbass statement of " Alerting Someone" in it, I would rather have something that would fit under my jacket and be of legal rifle requirements. The Kel-Tec sub 2000 will do that with ease. Honestly all I need is something to get my ass back to my truck, no matter where im at.. Thats where the badass stuff will be waiting, and gaurded by 120lbs of teeth!!!
Just dont trick my security system with some beef jerky!!! Thats cheating!!!

 

[majormadmax]

What are you talking about with "Alerting Someone?!?" PC 542.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT specifically reads: "(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;" is that what you are talking about?

As for carrying loaded rifles in your vehicle, whereas there may not be any state laws against it, some cities do have ordinances that prohibit it, such as San Antonio...

Sec. 21-16. - Carrying loaded rifle or shotgun. It shall be unlawful for any person, other than duly authorized peace officers, to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun on any public street within the city or in a motor vehicle while the same is being operated on any public street within the city.

 

[MR Redneck]

What are you talking about with "Alerting Someone?!?" PC 542.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT specifically reads: "(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;" is that what you are talking about?

As for carrying loaded rifles in your vehicle, whereas there may not be any state laws against it, some cities do have ordinances that prohibit it, such as San Antonio...

Yea that what im talking about. The Alarming manner is a big grey area. A few months ago a couple of Midland guys got thrown in jail over that "Alarm" word. They didnt point a gun at nobody, yell at anyone, or even say anthing what so every to anybody. Someone seen the guy carrying a gun to his buddies office and Thought the world was comming to an end. Ended up with a whole square block of down town midland shut down by the PD. The swat team was called in, and everyone in the surounding area was told to stay inside. When the swat team found the office the guy went to, they made a big deal out of the guys having several guns lawing on a table in there.
It sure was funny when the story unfolded, because the guy were just trading some guns and doing nothing wrong..
All that BS over someone be "alarmed"... I see people with guns everyday, all day long. I would be offended if people didnt have guns.
And thanks for the heads up on the Loaded gun Bann in San Antonio, I had no idea.

 

[dobarker]

View attachment 5010 SU-16D Under 20" folded. It's quite a bit more expensive than the 2000 but packs a bit more wallop.

 

[phatcatblues]

here is a comparison, for left to right a UMP, KRISS SV, CX4 Strom, PS90, Yugo M92 pistol. i think the PS90 will be the best candidate here without any stamp attached. unless any other rifles, it will not have any magazine sticking out, which makes it very compact and very easy to conceal under a coat or a tennis racket bag.