Springfield Armory Hellcat

[Maverick44]

Meh...another striker gun trying to be like a Glock.

Springfield had to buy a factory in Croatia to even have a decent gun to compete with Glock and they still can’t

The HS 2000 pistols from that same factory used to be very inexpensive until Springfield bought them and slapped their name on it.

Nah, they're better than a Glock

 

[Gilbertc13]

Let’s take a 365 and chop off .1 inch, cram another round up it’s ass and call it innovation. **** SA and everything they stand for.

I love the design of the gun. I’ll buy one a few years from now on the secondary market for Springfield never sees a penny of my purchase


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Maverick44]

I see a lot of unwarranted SA bashing. You guys do realize that the Illinois Firearms Manufacturer’s Association (IFMA) (SA's FORMER lobbying firm) were the ones selling out gun owners for exemptions, and that SA and RRA did not authorize them to do so, and had no knowledge of their activities until the deed was done, right? SA kicked them to the curb and made every effort imaginable to fix the damage that IFMA had done. Whatever fault they may have had (lack of oversight?) in this has been repaid in my opinion.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/springfield-armorys-gun-rights-turn-around/

Springfield took the bold step of cutting off their products to Dick’s Sporting Goods stores.

Springfield Armory then poured a ton of financial resources into blocking the Illinois Gun Retailer Licensing Bill (SB-1657). At the same time, company president Dennis Reese hired someone to run the day-to-day operations of the company. He also secured three lobbyists to work the halls of the Illinois General Assembly. We’ve watched them carefully and they’ve steadfastly worked towards gun rights for all.

Springfield Armory, to their credit, has also given big bucks to the Illinois State Rifle Association and other gun rights groups in Illinois. Those monies allowed ISRA to hire the well-liked former state legislator Eddie Sullivan to lobby on behalf of gun owners. Mr. Sullivan has proved pretty darn effective, too.

The retailer licensing bill eventually made it to the governor who vetoed it. Working together, pro-gun rights forces – including the recently-hired lobbyists for Springfield – managed to narrowly hold off an over-ride effort.

 

[MTA]

I see a lot of unwarranted SA bashing. You guys do realize that the Illinois Firearms Manufacturer’s Association (IFMA) (SA's FORMER lobbying firm) were the ones selling out gun owners for exemptions, and that SA and RRA did not authorize them to do so, and had no knowledge of their activities until the deed was done, right? SA kicked them to the curb and made every effort imaginable to fix the damage that IFMA had done. Whatever fault they may have had (lack of oversight?) in this has been repaid in my opinion.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/springfield-armorys-gun-rights-turn-around/

Sounds like they got caught with their pants down and tried to do some massive damage control

 

[zackmars]

Are you trying to start WW3? You're just set yourself up with possible death threats from all the 1911 fan-boys.

Threats are all they are. They'll never get past that point because they're too busy trying to fix failures to feed

 

[zackmars]

Sounds like they got caught with their pants down and tried to do some massive damage control

That is exactly what happened

 

[zackmars]

I see a lot of unwarranted SA bashing. You guys do realize that the Illinois Firearms Manufacturer’s Association (IFMA) (SA's FORMER lobbying firm) were the ones selling out gun owners for exemptions, and that SA and RRA did not authorize them to do so, and had no knowledge of their activities until the deed was done, right? SA kicked them to the curb and made every effort imaginable to fix the damage that IFMA had done. Whatever fault they may have had (lack of oversight?) in this has been repaid in my opinion.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/springfield-armorys-gun-rights-turn-around/

SAI and RRA *WERE* IFMA. They knew exactly what IFMA was doing, becasue they were the ones doing it.

I won't buy from SAI/RRA just like i won't buy from CTD.

I don't care what how much they donate to state level rights groups, not when they help pass gun laws behind our backs.

We have enough enemies without having to deal with our "friends" stabbing us in the back

 

[Maverick44]

If you have proof of SA's wrongdoing that the rest of us don't have, I'd be very interested in seeing it.

IFMA covered more manufacturers than just SA and RRA, and were their own entity capable of making their own decisions. SA and the others should have utilized a greater level of oversight in order to ensure that IFMA were acting in accordance to SA and the others principles, but that does not mean that SA and the others are fully responsible for the actions that IFMA took. No more responsible than you would be if you hired a mechanic to fix your car, and then he used your car to commit a crime. If you have proof to the contrary, again I would be interested in seeing it.

 

[zackmars]

Nah, they're better than a Glock

I've never seen a glock's grip safety break and require the gun the be shipped back to the factory with a live round in the chamber.

I see quite a few glocks and XD's, and after you take away all the cases of limp wristing either pistol, i see more people having issues with XD's by a wide margin. It's often issues with magazines

They were good guns when you could get them for $300, but in a world where you have APX's, PPQ's, Glocks, M&P's, caniks, CZ's, Steyrs, rugers, among many others...

 

[zackmars]

If you have proof of SA's wrongdoing that the rest of us don't have, I'd be very interested in seeing it.

IFMA covered more manufacturers than just SA and RRA, and were their own entity capable of making their own decisions. SA and the others should have utilized a greater level of oversight in order to ensure that IFMA were acting in accordance to SA and the others principles, but that does not mean that SA and the others are fully responsible for the actions that IFMA took. No more responsible than you would be if you hired a mechanic to fix your car, and then he used your car to commit a crime. If you have proof to the contrary, again I would be interested in seeing it.

https://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association.asp

Notice the contributors? Only 2.

2.

SAI, and RRA.

Without those 2 companies, IFMA is nothing

They knew what IFMA was doing, because they were the ones giving the green light to drop opposistion to the bill.

https://gunstoday.com/why-is-everyone-boycotting-springfield-armory/

 

[Maverick44]

I've never seen a glock's grip safety break and require the gun the be shipped back to the factory with a live round in the chamber.

I see quite a few glocks and XD's, and after you take away all the cases of limp wristing either pistol, i see more people having issues with XD's by a wide margin. It's often issues with magazines

They were good guns when you could get them for $300, but in a world where you have APX's, PPQ's, Glocks, M&P's, caniks, CZ's, Steyrs, rugers, among many others...

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/jmw0h/failure_to_load_in_glock_23live_round_stuck_in/

Failure to load in Glock 23...live round stuck in chamber! Help Please

The slide is completely stuck, I cannot pull it back to finish loading the round, and I cannot field strip the weapon. The only thing in this situation that seemed to help me out is that the trigger never reset.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=564262

I had an interesting problem with my G30SF yesterday...
Shooting Tula .45 steel cased stuff (Yeah, yeah yeah...

). Insert mag, pull trigger and get *click*. OK, no problem, rack slide and eject bum round except the slide will not budge.

So I head home with a live round in the chamber. Yay.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/gun-jammed-with-live-round-in-chamber.1457317/

13th round and gun jams. Cannot pull slide back and it IS in battery, trigger all the way back. Won't fire, trigger stuck, slide won't move and I am stumped.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-135286.html

I have a live round stuck in my G17. First two shots fired fine then the gun jammed. It is a stock Glock with a Lone Wolf barrel. I cannot take the upper off. How do I clear it?

https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Live_round_stuck_in_chamber_of_G19/13-120118/

This morning was filled with anger and a bit of fear. I got some reloads from my brother-in-law and shot about 100 rounds with no problem. Then I noticed the slide did not fully close so I dropped the mag and tapped the slide. I closed but would not eject the round. I read numerous suggestions on removing the round by striking the frame with a wooden block and even placing a dowel down the barrel and whacking it with a hammer. These all seemed extreme to me even though it is a Glock and I did not want to fire it because it might kaboom on me.

https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-188415.html

Plink Shooting for fun a g19 today after an ARA match. 4th gen glock with AAC tirant 9mm suppressor mounted on aftermarket Lone Wolf black finish threaded barrel.

This pistol has seen approx. 1200-1300 rounds mixed federal amer eagle 115gr round nose and Speer lawman 124gr round nose since being cerakoted FDE last summer. Pistol has been 100% until today.

Shot 20 rounds of 115gr federal amer eagle no problem. Wanted to try out some subsonic Magtech 147gr HP to see how quiet the suppressor really is since the 115gr usually go supersonic. Loaded up a mag of 147gr magtechs, brought to ready and released slide, noticed I didn't get the normal meaty thunk on slide release, double checked and it looked like it was in proper battery, raised to target and released trigger with NO bang! Wth, hold on target for possible slow ignition round 20 secs, then put on bench and look it over.

Looking closer, find about a 20-30 thousand gap between top of barrel and frame. Try to cycle slide, stuck will not move! Able to depress takedown bar and move slide off frame. Pictures of the situation. What do I do now, how dangerous is this?

As for the rest of your post, that comes down to personal opinion, and I think yours is wrong.

 

[zackmars]

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/jmw0h/failure_to_load_in_glock_23live_round_stuck_in/



https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=564262



https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/gun-jammed-with-live-round-in-chamber.1457317/



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-135286.html



https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Live_round_stuck_in_chamber_of_G19/13-120118/



https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-188415.html



As for the rest of your post, that comes down to personal opinion, and I think yours is wrong.

In at least 1 of your links, they involve reloads, 2 more mention aftermarket barrels. And several of the stories, the OP was able to clear the gun themselves


Nothing in a glock will prevent the slide from coming back. Not even an allen wrench in the FCG

But the XD has a grip safety that can break, and you will be unable to retract the slide at all. Ive seen it happen once with my own eyes, and ive heard more than a few people (including reputable trainers) mention it as a downside to the XD.

If someone took a bunch of SERPA and uncle mikes holsters, and turned them into a gun, the result would be the XD.

 

[Maverick44]

https://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association.asp

Notice the contributors? Only 2.

2.

SAI, and RRA.

Without those 2 companies, IFMA is nothing

They knew what IFMA was doing, because they were the ones giving the green light to drop opposistion to the bill.

https://gunstoday.com/why-is-everyone-boycotting-springfield-armory/

The first link shows what we already knew, that IFMA contributed money to an anti gun bill in SA and RRA's name. What it does not show is that SA or RRA authorized that money to be used that way. I believe that companies usually set aside a certain amount of money each year for lobbying. If SA and RRA were overly trusting of IFMA and were not watching what they did, then it is entirely possible that they gave IFMA money for lobbying without specifying what in particular that money was to be used for. IFMA made those decisions. Again, this is an issue of lack of oversight on SA's part, not them stabbing us in the back. They have more that made up for their mistake.

Think about this for a second. Do you really think a company like SA would knowingly make a "backroom deal" that would be visible to anyone who wanted to see it? Beyond that, do you think they would do something that they knew would piss off pretty much all of their customers? They've been around for awhile, they know what gun owners are like, and they know that this sort of crap is not acceptable. Why would they risk it?

As for the second link

Both companies have since made statements that they denied acting under the rules of IFMA and that they opposed the bill. Springfield Armory says they were unaware of the actions of IFMA until after the fact. The statement at 5:23 pm on May 1 says, “Springfield Armory, like Rock River Arms, was not aware of the actions taken by our trade association, IFMA, until after the fact. We take this situation very seriously and are looking into how this very unfortunate lapse in communication occurred.”

A half hour later on May 1, Springfield Armory made another statement. You can read that entirely on their website. It says that they no longer have confidence in the IFMA and that they have severed all ties with the IFMA effective immediately.

 

[zackmars]

The first link shows what we already knew, that IFMA contributed money to an anti gun bill in SA and RRA's name. What it does not show is that SA or RRA authorized that money to be used that way. I believe that companies usually set aside a certain amount of money each year for lobbying. If SA and RRA were overly trusting of IFMA and were not watching what they did, then it is entirely possible that they gave IFMA money for lobbying without specifying what in particular that money was to be used for. IFMA made those decisions. Again, this is an issue of lack of oversight on SA's part, not them stabbing us in the back. They have more that made up for their mistake.

Think about this for a second. Do you really think a company like SA would knowingly make a "backroom deal" that would be visible to anyone who wanted to see it? Beyond that, do you think they would do something that they knew would piss off pretty much all of their customers? They've been around for awhile, they know what gun owners are like, and they know that this sort of crap is not acceptable. Why would they risk it?

As for the second link

The point is, nobody other than SAI and RRA contributed

And yes, companies do shady shit out in the open all the time. Surely you remember all the crap Bill Ruger did?

Funny how you didn't quote this part

Here’s his original statement from April 27 : “The legislative process is a fluid process. The bill has only moved through one chamber, and it is still in the process. We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”

Stop believing their press releases. Juat because they make or sell guns, doesn't mean they are on our side. To many people in the gun industry, gun control is employment security, and many will happily vote for the clintons and obamas of the world if it gets the money flowing like it was back in 2013

 

[Maverick44]

In at least 1 of your links, they involve reloads, 2 more mention aftermarket barrels.

And the other 3? Do you want me to go find more, that was only about 30 seconds of looking? I'm sure I could find dozens more.

The aftermarket barrels are a highly popular and respected brand. To suggest that they are the cause without evidence that they were actually the cause just because they are "aftermarket" is just silly.

But the XD has a grip safety that can break, and you will be unable to retract the slide at all. Ive seen it happen once with my own eyes, and ive heard more than a few people (including reputable trainers) mention it as a downside to the XD.

A few incidents of it happen does not make it a widespread or likely issue. "Mentioning" it as a possible issue doesn't mean much. How many times have your heard about that BS story about M1 Garand clips pinging and signalling the enemy that you were out of ammo, even from experienced collectors and historians? Misinformation spreads, and it tends to stick around.

If someone took a bunch of SERPA and uncle mikes holsters, and turned them into a gun, the result would be the XD.

You have the right to be wrong.

 

[Maverick44]

The point is, nobody other than SAI and RRA contributed

And yes, companies do shady shit out in the open all the time. Surely you remember all the crap Bill Ruger did?

Funny how you didn't quote this part

Here’s his original statement from April 27 : “The legislative process is a fluid process. The bill has only moved through one chamber, and it is still in the process. We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”

Stop believing their press releases. Juat because they make or sell guns, doesn't mean they are on our side. To many people in the gun industry, gun control is employment security, and many will happily vote for the clintons and obamas of the world if it gets the money flowing like it was back in 2013

The point is, nobody other than SAI and RRA contributed

And yes, companies do shady shit out in the open all the time. Surely you remember all the crap Bill Ruger did?

Funny how you didn't quote this part

Here’s his original statement from April 27 : “The legislative process is a fluid process. The bill has only moved through one chamber, and it is still in the process. We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”

Stop believing their press releases. Juat because they make or sell guns, doesn't mean they are on our side. To many people in the gun industry, gun control is employment security, and many will happily vote for the clintons and obamas of the world if it gets the money flowing like it was back in 2013

You've never said anything stupid because you were ill informed about something?From his original statement, it very clearly sounds like he didn't know what he was talking about if he was referencing that bill.

“At the time of my initial statement to the media, I was ill-informed of the ramifications of this bill and its detrimental effects to the Second Amendment, which I have personally fought to protect my entire life. I can tell you now, we at Springfield Armory are unequivocally 100 percent against this bill and will continue to work with the NRA and others to ensure that it is defeated,” said Dennis Reese, Chief Executive Officer, Springfield Armory.

Springfield Armory, like Rock River Arms, was not aware of the actions taken by our trade association, IFMA, until after the fact. We take this situation very seriously and are looking into how this very unfortunate lapse in communication occurred.

Springfield Armory has fought and defeated legislation like this in Illinois for the past 15 years. We are wholeheartedly against this bill and will fight to see it defeated as the unnecessary and harmful overreach that it is.

They made a very real effort to deal with this issue and to make up for it. If that is not enough for you, then oh well, I doubt they'll notice. I don't feel the need to continuously hate a company for a mistake when they have made an effort to correct that mistake. I'll keep buying from them unless they actually do something to intentionally hurt us.

 

[zackmars]

And the other 3? Do you want me to go find more, that was only about 30 seconds of looking? I'm sure I could find dozens more.

The aftermarket barrels are a highly popular and respected brand. To suggest that they are the cause without evidence that they were actually the cause just because they are "aftermarket" is just silly.



A few incidents of it happen does not make it a widespread or likely issue. "Mentioning" it as a possible issue doesn't mean much. How many times have your heard about that BS story about M1 Garand clips pinging and signalling the enemy that you were out of ammo, even from experienced collectors and historians? Misinformation spreads, and it tends to stick around.



You have the right to be wrong.

Lol. Do you own stock in SAI?

Many of your links (i only briefly looked at them) either involved reloads, aftermarket parts, or were able to be resolved by the user. one was never updated by the op.

Thats not the same as "gun CAN'T be opened by anyone not at

You've never said anything stupid because you were ill informed about something?



They made a very real effort to deal with this issue and to make up for it. If that is not enough for you, then oh well, I doubt they'll notice. I don't feel the need to continuously hate a company for a mistake when they have made an effort to correct that mistake. I'll keep buying from them unless they actually do something to intentionally hurt us.

They were not misinformed, they knew exactly what they were doing from the start, because they were the only ones who were running ifma

And if i make a wrong decision, i dont half ass apologize and tbrow a few cents into a salvation army donation bucket, like SAI/RRA did

Rights, like trust, is a vase. If it is broken, it will never be completely restored, no matter how much glue you use

 

[zackmars]

And the other 3? Do you want me to go find more, that was only about 30 seconds of looking? I'm sure I could find dozens more.

The aftermarket barrels are a highly popular and respected brand. To suggest that they are the cause without evidence that they were actually the cause just because they are "aftermarket" is just silly.



A few incidents of it happen does not make it a widespread or likely issue. "Mentioning" it as a possible issue doesn't mean much. How many times have your heard about that BS story about M1 Garand clips pinging and signalling the enemy that you were out of ammo, even from experienced collectors and historians? Misinformation spreads, and it tends to stick around.



You have the right to be wrong.

Many aftermarket barrels, no matter how high quality, need to be fitted, even on glocks

Many of your links (i only briefly looked at them) either involved reloads, aftermarket parts, or were able to be resolved by the user. one was never updated by the op.

Thats not the same as "gun CAN'T be opened by anyone not at the factory"

The XD is an ok 300 buck gun, but it sucks when it is put up against even the most mediocre of avalible options today

 

[Maverick44]

Lol. Do you own stock in SAI?

Nope. Also only own one of their guns. I'm just against the spread of misinformation in general.

Many of your links (i only briefly looked at them) either involved reloads, aftermarket parts, or were able to be resolved by the user. one was never updated by the op.

I can find more

Thats not the same as "gun CAN'T be opened by anyone not at

I can find more

They were not misinformed, they knew exactly what they were doing from the start, because they were the only ones who were running ifma

Nope, that's just stupid.

And if i make a wrong decision, i dont half ass apologize and tbrow a few cents into a salvation army donation bucket, like SAI/RRA did

As is that statement. They made a massive effort to apologize.

Rights, like trust, is a vase. If it is broken, it will never be completely restored, no matter how much glue you use

No, not really.

You know what I think? From your comment's it's very clear that you just hate SA guns in general. You probably wouldn't buy one of these guns regardless of whether that incident had happened or not. All it did was give you a new reason to bash on them.

Goodnight. I'll be sure to think of you when I buy a Hellcat.

 

[Maverick44]

The XD is an ok 300 buck gun, but it sucks when it is put up against even the most mediocre of avalible options today

Oh, and I find it funny that you call the XD an overpriced gun, but you're just fine with Glock. A lot of cheaper guns offer more than what they do, and have the common decency to not put PLASTIC sights on a $500+ fighting gun.

Glock should be selling for about the same as what the old S&W Sigmas sold for.