straw purchases. my view from behind the counter.

[wolfsburg]

iv worked for an ffl dealer going on about 11months.many times a week i get someone in who wants to purchase a weapon that im, ugh....... not sure about. these people can be a little off there rocker but for the most part its just a differing or odd personality. these people arnt the people i worry about. the people id like to discuss, or at least vent about is these pieces of ______ who come in and are buying weapons for the true scum of the earth, murderers, poison dealers etc. these are the people who have at times kept me up at night or staring into space on my lunch break. i cant help but think what some of the weapons out there are doing. now let me be clear, im not talking about the 30-06 i sell to hunters or the g26 to the chl holder or the revolver i sold to a single mother of 3 on layaway to prtect herself and children. im talking about the weapons that could be used to murder innocent people or our leo's out there. i find myself, to a point angry at the fact that these scumball criminals who are out there ignoring our laws have and carry extremely powerfull weapons as often as i carry my ccw. also the fact that they, through there illegal activities earn enough money to buy, use and hord weapons i wish i could afford to buy. the BATF does so much but at the same time hardly puts a dent in it. straw purchasers come in and ask for ak-47s or ar15's or mini 14's to name a few and have no idea what they are looking for. then pull out huge wads of cash and say "il take 3". usualy i find i way to discourage the purchase or find anexcuse that i cant sell the weapon but its quite rediculous. some other employees take this less seriously but i hate the fact that these animals have tons of weapons so much more powerful then anything i own presently. these people walk all around us all the time. on the same streets as my family and it angers me. thats the short version of my two cents. id realy like to hear what you guys think..... thanks for listening.

 

[tap&rack_TXinfidel]

Discourage the purchase? Find an excuse? Are you serious with this thread? If you even believe that it is a straw purchase and you allow the sale to complete, you have committed a felony. Period. As another guy sitting behind the counter I will say that the BATFE does nothing about straw purchasers as I have reported many to their "hotline" and only received a questionable "uh OK we will handle it."
You have an obligation to stop straw purchases, do so. Don't make up an excuse, or talk them out of it, inform them that they are committing a FELONY by even attempting to purchase a firearm for someone that is unable to do so. Ask them if it is worth sitting in prison for the next 10 years. Be firm, and slightly aggressive. Powerful weapons has nothing to do with it. If some jackass has a felony record, I don't even want him knowing the joy of owning a lil 10/22. Pay close attention to who is really there wanting the firearm, you'd be surprised how easy it is to pick these pieces of shit out.

 

[RandomHero]

Discourage the purchase? Find an excuse? Are you serious with this thread? If you even believe that it is a straw purchase and you allow the sale to complete, you have committed a felony. Period. As another guy sitting behind the counter I will say that the BATFE does nothing about straw purchasers as I have reported many to their "hotline" and only received a questionable "uh OK we will handle it."
You have an obligation to stop straw purchases, do so. Don't make up an excuse, or talk them out of it, inform them that they are committing a FELONY by even attempting to purchase a firearm for someone that is unable to do so. Ask them if it is worth sitting in prison for the next 10 years. Be firm, and slightly aggressive. Powerful weapons has nothing to do with it. If some jackass has a felony record, I don't even want him knowing the joy of owning a lil 10/22. Pay close attention to who is really there wanting the firearm, you'd be surprised how easy it is to pick these pieces of shit out.

can you really decline the sale based on a hunch?

 

[wolfsburg]

your damn right im serious, i have just gone by what the batf has told me. its always, "well if they dont give enough reason to suspect otherwise just sell it and let us handle it" i am pretty damn firm and i flat out deny on average 4 to 5 a week but im sure there is some that get through. im meaning in general out there. my days off, other stores etc. i actualy give a shit, if i didnt i wouldnt have posted this.

 

[wolfsburg]

on a hunch, it depends on the company you work for. but yes you can on a hunch and i do often

 

[RandomHero]

how do you go about denying what you perceive as a straw purchase? and how does the customer take it?

 

[wolfsburg]

some say nothing and walk out, others try and fight it and get angry. some threats etc which just results in an even quicker call to the authoritys on my part.
i flat out say that under the suspision of a straw purchase we are not going to release a firearm to you. i also warn of the penaltys of the vialation.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Ummmm....which shop do you work for?

 

[wakal]

There are quite a few "discrimination" charges filed by color hustlers/race baiters/poverty pimps against gun shops for refusing to sell to a individual togged out in the finest gangsa ghetto goon gear, or group thereof, no matter that they picked out a gun and had the one girl with them pay with cash, or have their friend pay with cash, or joke about which would be better against cop armor. No matter that the clerk(s) did the right thing by any resonable and prudent measure by denying the sale, of course, the race baiters must have conflict to exploit (manufactured or otherwise).

Another (local) shop calling the ATF and reporting a guy who doesn't speak English, has no idea of the difference between AR and AK, has a residence right next to the border, and wants ten ("modern sporting rifles") guns (cash) and all of whatever ammo fits it (more cash), and all the 'clips' available (cash cash) yet passed a background check. The order was "sell it to him."

Ah, OK, then. And this call is being recorded for training purposes


Alex

 

[ADRidge]

I feel your pain, OP. I worked at a FFL up here for a good while. The work was fun most of the time and I genuinely enjoyed helping people buy their next gun. But there were a few fairly obvious straw purchases that I would point out to my coworkers. Of course, they'd continue with the sale. Managers would smile, nod and look the other way. It happens more than most people care to imagine. I've turned a few down myself, but I was just one of the sales crew.

 

[leonidas]

I feel your pain, OP.... there were a few fairly obvious straw purchases that I would point out to my coworkers. Of course, they'd continue with the sale. Managers would smile, nod and look the other way.

I'm seriously interested in knowing what "flags" make a straw purchase so obvious? In light of what happened with operating fast and furious, I wonder (no offense) if they've turned average gun shop joes into BATFE mall cops.

What we are finding out is that most of the guns sold to Mexican Cartels are really coming from Government straw purchases and I'm guessing the remainder is being sold by those who have stolen guns from law abiding citizens. I would think as a business, so long as the individual passes the NICS, then you'd sell them what they wanted.

I would have serious issues If I walked into a gun store, past the NICS, and was told I couldn't have three ARs because they believed I was a straw purchaser.

Paying cash and wanting multiple firearms does not a straw purhaser make.

Logic suggests that if those guns where sold to a straw man, BATFE could track them down using NICS. BATFE would either find that it was a case of stolen identity and not find the culprit/bandit/gang member or they could question/detain the buyer and get to the root of the problem. If he were caught, then I'm sure the media would love that story and keep it on 24/7.

I personally have never heard of this scenario. We're only told on the media channels that Mexican Cartels have weapons sold by U.S. gun shops. The story details end there. No further investigation is done for the public. Then fast and furious broke and now I think we can understand what is truly goning on.

If the DOJ is behind straw purchases ( i think they are as it is an excellent way for an anti-gun Attorney General to support further gun control), then of course the BATFE won't chase down the culprit. Therefore, you can be rest assured if your "hunches" to straw men are correct, you're actually selling it to Uncle Sam and doing your patriotic duty.

 

[TundraWookiee]

Discourage the purchase? Find an excuse? Are you serious with this thread? If you even believe that it is a straw purchase and you allow the sale to complete, you have committed a felony. Period. As another guy sitting behind the counter I will say that the BATFE does nothing about straw purchasers as I have reported many to their "hotline" and only received a questionable "uh OK we will handle it."
You have an obligation to stop straw purchases, do so. Don't make up an excuse, or talk them out of it, inform them that they are committing a FELONY by even attempting to purchase a firearm for someone that is unable to do so. Ask them if it is worth sitting in prison for the next 10 years. Be firm, and slightly aggressive. Powerful weapons has nothing to do with it. If some jackass has a felony record, I don't even want him knowing the joy of owning a lil 10/22. Pay close attention to who is really there wanting the firearm, you'd be surprised how easy it is to pick these pieces of shit out.

I agree. My great aunt works for an ffl dealer and between sales and transfers she turns away a good number of people who don't seem right.

I feel like most people can get a pretty good idea of whether a buyer is legitimate just by holding a short conversation with them about their purchase plus whatever body language they're giving off. "Hey man, that's a real nice AR you're buying...do you just like to target shoot or do you hunt?" You can follow up with a casual conversation about what range he goes to or whatever and if the answers don't seem to add up or he is exceptionally nervous or unsure then you can get an even better idea to build upon your hunch. When guns make it into the hands of criminals it undermines the cause that all of us are trying to promote and gives anti-gun nuts one more reason to try to tighten the noose.

 

[shooterfpga]

I agree. My great aunt works for an ffl dealer and between sales and transfers she turns away a good number of people who don't seem right.

I feel like most people can get a pretty good idea of whether a buyer is legitimate just by holding a short conversation with them about their purchase plus whatever body language they're giving off. "Hey man, that's a real nice AR you're buying...do you just like to target shoot or do you hunt?" You can follow up with a casual conversation about what range he goes to or whatever and if the answers don't seem to add up or he is exceptionally nervous or unsure then you can get an even better idea to build upon your hunch. When guns make it into the hands of criminals it undermines the cause that all of us are trying to promote and gives anti-gun nuts one more reason to try to tighten the noose.

im sorry but i dont like to hold conversations with ffl dealers. they arent your friends. i come there for one reason only, thats to purchase a gun.

Sent from my FD05 SPH-D710

 

[ROGER4314]

First, your line is SO similar to the Liberal Gun Banners that I hesitate to even weigh in on this one. The terms that you use are right out of their venom filled writings. You say the customers are "Murderers" but NO ONE is a murderer until they have been convicted of that crime. That being said, I'll respond to your OP as though you are sincere in your concerns.

You are employed to sell guns and equipment for your employer. You should concentrate on additional sales, completing correct paperwork and obeying the law. Judgements about the customer aren't your job UNLESS you see something that is clearly against the law. Then you shut it down and refuse to make a sale. If the gun is still sold, make sure that YOU aren't the one completing the transaction. Your supervisor can handle it if they don't agree with your evaluation of the situation. Just say "NO!"

I worked in the famous "Bell's Gun Shop" in Chicago as a young man before the laws of 1968 were passed. I had similar concerns and I sold the cheap, crappy guns to folks I thought might be troublesome. For most others, I showed S&W's and Colt's while working in my sales duties. In every case, I followed the law. Was that right? Hell, I don't know. I was just a DFK trying to figure the world out.

I look like a junkyard dog but I also have a Masters Degree, I'm a retired teacher, have a CHL and worked for the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. I'm clean and sober, follow the law and lead a quiet, peaceful, life. People misread me and conclude that I'm ready to smash heads! Don't be too quick to judge.

Please work on your spelling. This site has a running spell check function. If a word has a red line under it, that word is misspelled. If you can't figure out the correct spelling, then pick a different word. I'm just trying to help.

Flash

 

[txinvestigator]

Bless you guys who managed to read that mess. No paragraphs or capitalization keeps me from even trying.

 

[tap&rack_TXinfidel]

The answer is yes, I can deny a sale based on a hunch that I have that the sale is illegal. Not everyone gets a gun, there are a lot of laws regarding firearm sales and I'm there to make sure we adhere to every one of them. I've been doing this for a long time, and I've become pretty good at picking out a straw purchaser. And nothing makes me have a better day that watching a grown adult make a scene like a child and asks to speak to a manager. Then have my manager smile and say the same thing I just did, "NO!"

 

[TexMex247]

I have been at the gun counter at Academy when your typical trashy meth-head chick is browsing with her obviously "criminal" friend or boyfriend. Of course, she knows nothing about guns, she just hangs around while her thug friend points at the gun he wants and then pulls cash out of his back pocket and hands it to her. This is an obvious straw purchase scenario in which none of the employees have the nuts to say or do anything about it. Now, ya'll could say I'm stereo typing or discriminating, but I flat out don't care. If the same young lady showed up alone, asked intellegent questions and used money from her own pocket, I would have no problem with it but when the first question on the form says "Are you the actual purchaser of the firearm?", it blows me away when none of the employees do anything about it. They just personally witnessed the funds coming from another persons pocket. I appreciate your concern and hope you always emphasize question one on the form and let people know the penalties associated with violating it. Maybe your store policy should be changed to allow a limited number of guns per day. Who the hell really needs 3 Ars at once? - Not a hunter or typical law abiding citizen. Keep fighting the good fight and when in doubt, just don't do it. I'd rather lose my job over it than know that those guns will get into the wrong hands on my watch.

 

[shooterfpga]

um, i know several guys that will buy more than one ar15 at a time. either fully functional or bulk pack 10+ receivers. many of these guys are retired and/or just like to build stuff. even on another website i belong to it is not uncommon for bulk purchases.

Sent from my FD05 SPH-D710

 

[TexMex247]

I emphasize the word "needs", who needs to buy 3 aks or ars at once. The correct answer, Nobody.

 

[Ghostie]

This

First, your line is SO similar to the Liberal Gun Banners that I hesitate to even weigh in on this one. The terms that you use are right out of their venom filled writings. You say the customers are "Murders" but NO ONE is a murderer until they have been convicted of that crime. That being said, I'll respond to your OP as though you are sincere in your concerns.

You are employed to sell guns and equipment for your employer. You should concentrate on additional sales, completing correct paperwork and obeying the law. Judgements about the customer aren't your job UNLESS you see something that is clearly against the law. Then you shut it down and refuse to make a sale. If the gun is still sold, make sure that YOU aren't the one completing the transaction. Your supervisor can handle it if they don't agree with your evaluation of the situation. Just say "NO!"

I worked in the famous "Bell's Gun Shop" in Chicago as a young man before the laws of 1968 were passed. I had similar concerns and I sold the cheap, crappy guns to folks I thought might be troublesome. For most others, I showed S&W's and Colt's while working in my sales duties. In every case, I followed the law. Was that right? Hell, I don't know. I was just a DFK trying to figure the world out.

I look like a junkyard dog but I also have a Masters Degree, I'm a retired teacher, have a CHL and worked for the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. I'm clean and sober, follow the law and lead a quiet, peaceful, life. People misread me and conclude that I'm ready to smash heads! Don't be too quick to judge.

Please work on your spelling. This site has a running spell check function. If a word has a red line under it, that word is misspelled. If you can't figure out the correct spelling, then pick a different word. I'm just trying to help.

Flash