straw purchases. my view from behind the counter.
- Thread starter wolfsburg
- Start date
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Leonidas, you're absolutely right. I had and have no problem with people buying multiple guns in one visit. Heck, I do that occasionally. What I do have a problem with is people who will come in, TELL me they're a felon and then have their son try to buy a gun. Yes, that happened once. I've also had the more common example where the banger comes in with a female, hands her cash and she wants to "um, buy, that uh, what was it? Oh yeah, AR15."
I'm not saying it happened every day, or even every week. But it happened enough that you could call it regular.
I'm not saying it happened every day, or even every week. But it happened enough that you could call it regular.
Okay, that scenario makes total sense to me and we'd do well to not sell in that situation. I was hoping the OP would have described a situation as you did so I could better understand the issue of denying a clean NICS gun purchase.
That's the problem: Needs or wants. They don't need, just want. In the end, their greed will do them in, either in court or on the street.
Bluntly put - it ain't none of your business. I've had to fill out "multiple purchase" forms more than once, simply because a certain set of guns caught my eye. It ain't about "need" - if I'm a law-abiding citizen, you have no say in how many guns I buy at one time. Period.
Now...I realize the above sounds harsh - please do NOT take it personally. I said it that way to emphasize the point I'm trying to make - that it's my choice to spend my money however I wish. Having said that, I also realize that there ARE folks out there doing "straw buys" - and where you KNOW it's happening, I'm all for stopping 'em. Just be careful - some of 'em may be doing so at the direction of federal agents....
I understand the sentiment....but believe me - only idiotic criminal types buy from shops. Most of 'em are buying from individuals that likely have questionable "heritage" on the gun they're selling. I had a shop one time giving me some grief because I happened to spot several guns that I *really* liked. Now, I'd just gotten done with a good-sized job, so I was sweaty and dirty - but it was obvious to anyone observing that I not only KNEW the guns I was looking at, I was also interested enough to recognize the rarity of one of the guns in particular I was looking at - a 98% Savage 99 hex barrel in .303 Savage.
Ended up with 5 guns set up to purchase, and they started getting all sideways, asking me questions far beyond anything I was required to answer. I got fed up, pulled out my wallet and showed my TDL and CHL, along with about $8k in cash - more than enough to pay for the guns - and told 'em to put 'em back on the shelf, because *I* wasn't interested in buyin' 'em any longer.
Again - I understand the fine line that must be walked, but most of the guns I was wanting (the Savage, a sweet Sauer double barrel, a Blaser and a pair of Colt Series 70's) were NOT the type that go for druggies.
I don't, guns are just that guns. It is literally my constitutional right, to own one. I shouldn't be inconvenienced (my time) for supposed added safety of my community.
Because well quite frankly the underlying issue isn't safety... If it were, there would be inconveniences on other far more dangerous items, booze, cars, etc...
Mike D Texas
Active Member
What does that have to do with anything and who's decision should it be to decide who needs anything?
That is very dangerous speak my friend.
I suppose I didn't really need the Colt and Noveske SBRs and the suppressors to go with them that I am currently awaiting my form 4s to come back on, but I am a free man and it's legal and I wanted them so why should anyone be allowed to decide whether I need them?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Mike D Texas
Active Member
I don't feel picked on, if anything this forum is a great venue to express our opinions. Not that mine is any more valid than ya'lls. I think part of our problems in this country today stem from being a "country of individuals" more concerned with ourselves than the greater good. Limiting the number of guns purchased per day may not be the solution but it still doesn't keep a law abiding citizen from owning the guns they want, it just slows the process. There could be much worse regulation out there. If you look at how I feel about it, I am not sacrificing any liberty.
You are trying to sacrifice my liberty though.
You seem to bring a lot of pre-conceived notions and biases to the table. For example this statement:
"Who the hell really needs 3 Ars at once? - Not a hunter or typical law abiding citizen".
You seem to presume to know the needs or lifestyles of every hunter or law-abiding citizen in the country. That is just plain silly. I have bought multiple firearms on many occasions, Why you ask? Because I had a big bonus and the price was right. I was unable to buy 1 every two months or whatever, had to wait for my commission check to come in, so I buy what I have wanted for months all on the same day. Under your system I should lose my liberty to buy these fireams because of my erratic income. No thanks.
As far as buying multiples at once, you also have to remember this is big ole Texas. A LOT of people live hours away from a shop that sells the type of weapon they're looking for.
So they eventually find the time to burn a day off making the trip to a particular store and want to pick up the guns they've been wanting for awhile without dealing with shipping.
That also leads to a new face you don't know walking through the door and wanting to buy multiple guns.
Easy enough to explain on the part of the buyer "yeah just drove up from xxxxxx to pick up a couple of xxxxxx" but then again, why should I have to explain my reason?
So they eventually find the time to burn a day off making the trip to a particular store and want to pick up the guns they've been wanting for awhile without dealing with shipping.
That also leads to a new face you don't know walking through the door and wanting to buy multiple guns.
Easy enough to explain on the part of the buyer "yeah just drove up from xxxxxx to pick up a couple of xxxxxx" but then again, why should I have to explain my reason?
As a FFL, I don't care how many guns you buy (except that I have to fill out ANOTHER form and send it to both my local law doggies and the BATFErs) if you buy two or more pistols within seven days. My opinion of that, or in fact any gun law in light of the clear language of the 2nd and 10th Amendments, and of the clear and often-stated opinions of those who wrote 'em, is that you can have, carry, store, tote around, buy, sell, and give away anydamnthing you want. Period. We are Americans, and that is all the reason anyone needs to have (or not have) anything they want.
However, we don't live in that America (or by those rules). We live in the America that has decided that the law means whatever the folks who are good enough, smart enough, and gosh darn it people like them enough to vote them into office..decides...that it means.
And since I want to play the gun game, I have to play by the rules. As of now, the rules say I can't sell to a "straw buyer." However, the "other" rules (enforced by the race baiters/poverty pimps/looters/moochers) say that I can't "discriminate" on the basis of (fill in annoyingly accurate stereotype here). So, the easy solution is to call the ATF and describe what is going on. They don't bloody well care. They, as evidenced by Fast and Furious, WANT guns in the hands of illegals/gang bangers/druggies/moochers/looters/poverty pimps/etc. so they can use the "guns" to further their political agenda.
Personally, I think...more guns, less crime. Professionally, I am required to follow rules that I don't agree with, that are poorly enforced (and then only against gun dealers and honest, if mistaken, people and not the people or situations that would be the logical targets of such rules).
Go figure.
That said, if you think a person must have to have a "need" to buy one, two, or twenty guns of ANY kind, please lick my taint. My purchases are none of your business, and your little opinions are not welcome in light of that pesky 2nd Amendment...thus you have no need to use your month for "talking." You make a squishy ashtray, a poor doorstop, and an annoying chair warmer. You are of no other use, and any further discussion from your taint-licking hole is a waste of time. Cordially, drop dead.
Alex
However, we don't live in that America (or by those rules). We live in the America that has decided that the law means whatever the folks who are good enough, smart enough, and gosh darn it people like them enough to vote them into office..decides...that it means.
And since I want to play the gun game, I have to play by the rules. As of now, the rules say I can't sell to a "straw buyer." However, the "other" rules (enforced by the race baiters/poverty pimps/looters/moochers) say that I can't "discriminate" on the basis of (fill in annoyingly accurate stereotype here). So, the easy solution is to call the ATF and describe what is going on. They don't bloody well care. They, as evidenced by Fast and Furious, WANT guns in the hands of illegals/gang bangers/druggies/moochers/looters/poverty pimps/etc. so they can use the "guns" to further their political agenda.
Personally, I think...more guns, less crime. Professionally, I am required to follow rules that I don't agree with, that are poorly enforced (and then only against gun dealers and honest, if mistaken, people and not the people or situations that would be the logical targets of such rules).
Go figure.
That said, if you think a person must have to have a "need" to buy one, two, or twenty guns of ANY kind, please lick my taint. My purchases are none of your business, and your little opinions are not welcome in light of that pesky 2nd Amendment...thus you have no need to use your month for "talking." You make a squishy ashtray, a poor doorstop, and an annoying chair warmer. You are of no other use, and any further discussion from your taint-licking hole is a waste of time. Cordially, drop dead.
Alex
Actually, I was told by my IOI that I don't need a reason, I can deny a purchase for "any reason".
If I don't feel something is right, I just refuse the sale.
If the person is on the up and up, some other FFL will take their money.
I don't need the headaches that the BATFE can cause, for the few dollars of a sale.
As you know, there is not alot of markup on most firearms and my license being yanked for the few dollars on one sale ?........NOPE.
If you don't leave me feeling all warm and fuzzy about selling you weapons or ammunition.......shop somewhere else. That is my right.
