Texas OC advocate clashes with Wal-Mart worker

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

I completely agree with Younggun.

Once told you have to leave because you're OCing and such is not allowed at that business, only to return OCing, you're in a legal jam.

Now, does the business keep records on such transgressors?

Maybe not, but if you try OCing in that business again, recognized as one who was told to leave previously for OCing, you'll enjoy a high liklihood of going to jail, plus lose your LTC.

Try arguing your way out of that, "Mr. Amateur Lawyer", who insists, I know my rights, blah, blah, blah.

 

[Mreed911]

I can't change the way you think, I can't change the way that guy thinks

Except that with a well-reasoned argument, facts/experience to back it up, etc. you can - or we should be able to have a reasonable discussion about it. That's the point of a democratic society - argument, reason, and change.

I'd put forth that based on the conversations posted here by folks who interacted with store owners who put up 30.07 signs, nearly ALL of them so far did so because of what they saw from OC rallies, OCT antics, etc. That's "facts/experience" - even if only anecdotal to start - that help formulate the reasonable argument that this type of behavior isn't helpful and doesn't change minds.

 

[Mreed911]

I completely agree with Younggun.

Once told you have to leave because you're OCing and such is not allowed at that business, only to return OCing, you're in a legal jam.

Now, does the business keep records on such transgressors?

Maybe not, but if you try OCing in that business again, recognized as one who was told to leave previously for OCing, you'll enjoy a high liklihood of going to jail, plus lose your LTC.

Try arguing your way out of that, "Mr. Amateur Lawyer", who insists, I know my rights, blah, blah, blah.

Especially when you document it FOR them.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Given OCT's knuckle dragging, low brow approach, I'm convinced, Bloomberg operatives recruited a bunch of easily swayed dimwits to discredit pro-gun folks into looking like what every liberal thinks pro-gun folks are: Dumb ass shit kicker's with a straw toothpick in their mouth who like to wax philosophically about guns, women in the kitchen and black folk...

 

[TX69]

show or go if you argue signs will go up/ and if they put up one they will put up two

Walmart knows if that they do that they could lose a HUGE chunk of their guns and ammo sales. IT would spread like wild fire through the forums and people might look elsewhere. Me thinks that is what they are trying to avoid.

 

[Whistler]

Because you can doesn't mean you should.

I'm a firm believer in communities teaching morality and right/wrong instead of legislating it. Calling out bad behavior is how that happens. You can't remove government overreach of the populace is unwilling to reclaim the roll of calling out bad behavior.


Sent from my HAL 9000

"Because you can doesn't mean you should" covers a lot of ground, nearly as much as "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" though both are subjective and cavalier.

Admittedly I don't have audio on my frankenPC, I didn't see him break anything, attack anyone, knock anything down. Is his "bad behavior" speech so offensive as to warrant the vitriolic responses in this thread?

We agree legislation is not appropriate to dictate morality however free speech is by it's nature offensive, if everyone agreed there would be no need for the assurance. Had his actions been inappropriate (breaking things, attacking, knocking things down) I would agree with intervention.

 

[Whistler]

What exactly is his opinion and where are people disagreeing with it? I just see someone being an ass (not you Whistler, the person in the video).

What opinion are you defending?
*His right to OC. Most of us are not criticizing that.
*Right of Walmart to ask ID. Most of us are not criticizing that.
*Right of him to not produce his ID. not criticizing that.
We're criticizing that he threw a hissy instead of simply refusing and leaving the store. That hissy has now been picked up by at least one major paper, thus impugning your average OCer.

A personal warning here. If antics continue we may see a move away from mere .30-07 to eliminating OC and restricting CHL al. The Bloomberg groups are using this to their advantage now.

Depends on how strongly you feel about it I suppose. You, me wouldn't throw a fit about this but I suspect there are things or situations where either of us might. I think he's wrong primarily from a property rights perspective and where he loses me, you have no right to shop anywhere except by invitation and as dictated by the owner. It's a point I think he missed when asserting his legal right to OC however illogical activism has been shown to be effective for various other causes.

 

[Whistler]

Except that with a well-reasoned argument, facts/experience to back it up, etc. you can - or we should be able to have a reasonable discussion about it. That's the point of a democratic society - argument, reason, and change.

I'd put forth that based on the conversations posted here by folks who interacted with store owners who put up 30.07 signs, nearly ALL of them so far did so because of what they saw from OC rallies, OCT antics, etc. That's "facts/experience" - even if only anecdotal to start - that help formulate the reasonable argument that this type of behavior isn't helpful and doesn't change minds.

I thought we were having a reasonable discussion, without a dissenting opinion there isn't much of a discussion. I don't know that I agree store owners are necessarily 100% candid when expressing their "reason" for posting, I do know it is convenient and excuses them from taking a position by claiming duress or avoidance. I suspect the dynamic of gun owners versus anti-gun activists to be a bit lopsided - we tend to respect the right of the property owner and concede quietly as opposed to having a fit bleating about "right to feel safe" and "think of the children". I think that's right and proper however I also think the oppositions typical reaction an influential factor. Playing devil's advocate, perhaps this individual opted to take a play from the book of the opposition?

 

[zincwarrior]

Depends on how strongly you feel about it I suppose. You, me wouldn't throw a fit about this but I suspect there are things or situations where either of us might. I think he's wrong primarily from a property rights perspective and where he loses me, you have no right to shop anywhere except by invitation and as dictated by the owner. It's a point I think he missed when asserting his legal right to OC however illogical activism has been shown to be effective for various other causes.

Fair enough view there Whistler. Fair enough view.

 

[majormadmax]

But what keeps Walmart from asking? Sure you don't have to show your ID but they can ask if they want. And if you don't want to show they can certainly and 100% legal tell you to GTFO.

Once again...

It's simple, if Walmart doesn't want people to OC there, then they need to post a 30.07 sign or have someone who is the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner give oral or written notice of the policy prohibiting the open carry of handguns on the property.

They can ask all they want, but there is no legal requirement for anyone to show them a CHL/LTC.

Walmart can play their games, and OCT will play theirs.

To sum up, I think both sides of this argument are wrong. Walmart for their policy of asking to see CHLs/LTCs, and OCT for arguing with them about it. Unfortunately, in this case I think OCT is more in the right than Walmart although I still disagree with their antics.

Cheers! M2

And why they may be able to "certainly and 100% legal tell you to GTFO," I doubt Walmart would like to have a video of that show up on the Internet!

But you have the same right to tell them to do the same!

 

[Das Jared]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Here all day.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[zx9rt1]

Calmly leave the store or show your LTC and shop. Those are the only two reasonable reactions.


Sent from my HAL 9000

Yep. Sounds pretty straight forward to me too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ROGER4314]

I still carry concealed but have been working on two shoulder holsters to use for OC. I can't imagine how these OC freaks can feel that their actions are positive publicity for the rest of the law abiding LTC citizens.

These Dimwits make us all look like self centered, rude bullies.

Flash

 

[Ranger60]

The asshat brigade strikes again. Agree, show the license or leave, not be an ass and make the rest of us look bad.

 

[TheDan]

lol... Two morons arguing. Same as nearly every other video.

 

[Ranger60]

FYI, also made Texas Monthly's web page. Has a pretty good story including the name of the individual and the WalMart location.

Always try to remember that this is what the general public sees and associates all gun owners with this guy.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-dai...ivists-are-very-upset-with-walmart-right-now/

 

[Hoji]

But,but,but people here keep telling us that OCT behavior does not affect whether or not a business posts signs.

 

[robertc1024]

Can we just go back to your harp seal post?

(Off Topic - You make it home ok?)

 

[Hoji]

Can we just go back to your harp seal post?

(Off Topic - You make it home ok?)

I did. Thank you. Got home a couple of hours ago.

 

[London]

Dude was right to stick up for his privacy rights but his demeanor needs a lot of work. Imagine if the same things were being said by someone who calmly remained a gentleman while the Walmart people remained... Walmart people. They'd be completely cornered into looking like snoopy, ignorant jerks.

"I'd prefer you respect my privacy" is my canned response to this potential future scenario.