The 14" Mossberg shotgun that isn't NFA

[Eli]

It's an AOW. Read carefully, that guy is playing 'what-if' not reality.
26 U.S.C. § 5845

(e) Any other weapon

The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

I have no idea what 'ruling' they're discussing, but there isn't anything about OAL in the law... BATF has also declared shoelaces to be machine guns in the past...

Eli

 

[Moonpie]

It is not a handgun

"Po Po isn't there to figure out such nuances. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and illegal to be a duck they don't bother to check if it's a goose or pygmy swan. That is for the DA, judge or jury to work out."

 

[Younggun]

It's an AOW. Rad carefully, that guy is playing 'what-if' not reality.
26 U.S.C. § 5845

I have no idea what 'ruling' they're discussing, but there isn't anything about OAL in the law... BATF has also declared shoelaces to be machine guns in the past...

Eli

That was my original thought.

 

[TX69]

I have a 20" 590 that I put that very same birds head grip on. It shortens the shotgun considerably and still leaves a good amount of control. Took it to a friends home and we all shot it. Used OO buck and 1oz slugs. The buckshot was easy to lay down some patterns but the slugs were a little more trouble. Once we got use to the slugs we became more accurate with them.

 

[Acera]

Question, how many of you have read the ATF letters dealing with this specific issue before posting??????

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/PistolGrippedShotgunLike.pdf

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

RedactedPg1.jpg Photo by rusticarts | Photobucket

http://s33.photobucket.com/user/rusticarts/media/redactedPg2.jpg.html

A lot of what is being discussed is addressed in those letters.


For those of you bringing up the Taurus Judge and making incorrect assumptions that it is classified as a shotgun, think again. It is not a smooth bore, the barrel has rifling in it for the .45 LC it shoots. It is also able to shoot a .410 shotgun shell, the rifling makes it legal.

 

[Younggun]

If I'm going with a shorty shotty, it will be the Serbu.

 

[single stack]

I shot a PGO once. It was not my cup of tea. I couldn't hit sh!t.
I barely hit center mass at 50 feet.
A standard riot shotgun/Mossy Persuader for me.
Heck, I can shoot skeet with a modicum of success with a Persuader.
A bad guy is a lot bigger than a clay target.

 

[pharmaco]

Question, how many of you have read the ATF letters dealing with this specific issue before posting??????

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/PistolGrippedShotgunLike.pdf

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

RedactedPg1.jpg Photo by rusticarts | Photobucket

http://s33.photobucket.com/user/rusticarts/media/redactedPg2.jpg.html

A lot of what is being discussed is addressed in those letters.


For those of you bringing up the Taurus Judge and making incorrect assumptions that it is classified as a shotgun, think again. It is not a smooth bore, the barrel has rifling in it for the .45 LC it shoots. It is also able to shoot a .410 shotgun shell, the rifling makes it legal.

This.

I'll never understand forumites sometimes.

OP posts, "Read this article that covers how A, B, and C are OK"


50 posts follow all saying "WHAT ABOUT B!?"
"I THINK C MIGHT BE AN ISSUE"
"YOU'LL GO TO JAIL FOR A!"

 

[Younggun]

WTF you tawkin bout, Willis?

 

[40Arpent]

WTF you tawkin bout, Willis?

Willis is talking about dumbasses that keep asking questions, or spewing incorrect information, AFTER the answers and correction information have already been provided.

 

[Moonpie]

Willis is talking about dumbasses that keep asking questions, or spewing incorrect information, AFTER the answers and correction information have already been provided.

HEY! Did'ja hear about the new Mossberg short barrel shotgun that isn't a short barrel shotgun?

 

[40Arpent]

HEY! Did'ja hear about the new Mossberg short barrel shotgun that isn't a short barrel shotgun?

I think that if it doesn't have a front sight bead on it, it can be classified as a C&R, so no stamp is required.

 

[Saltyag2010]

Can I get cliff noted on how it's legal?

 

[Acera]

Can I get cliff noted on how it's legal?

Is this too long to read from the link in the first post? If so I will post a shorter answer.

I get a lot of questions from customers about the “new” ATF ruling regarding pistol-grip-only (PGO) firearms with 14″ barrels that aren’t considered NFA items.
Well, first off, let me say, it’s not a new ruling. It’s the same position that ATF has always taken regarding PGO firearms that fire a fixed shotgun shell that have NEVER had a buttstock attached to them—they’re NOT shotguns! They’re simply firearms. As such, they don’t necessarily need to have 18″+ barrels on them to remain out of the purview of the NFA.
You see, the very definition of a “shotgun” requires that it be “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder…” Without a buttstock ever having been fitted to the PGO firearms in question, they can’t be fired from the shoulder and are therefore not shotguns. Hence, with a 14″ barrel, they can’t be considered short-barreled shotguns, as they aren’t shotguns to begin with. Read the full definition of a shotgun here.
PGO firearms that remain longer than 26″ in overall length also can’t be defined as AOWs. That’s because the term “any other weapon” (AOW) means “any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person…” And ATF maintains that to be concealed, the firearm needs to be shorter than 26″. Read the full definition of an AOW here.
More on the subject is available in these two letters to Len Savage—the guy who will be making a lot of these non-NFA firearms in the coming months and years:

• July 20, 2010 letter from NFA Tech Branch to Mr. Len Savage
• October 27, 2010 letter from NFA Tech Branch to Mr. Len Savage
• Page 1 of third letter
• Page 2 of third letter

All that said, I’m not a firearms attorney. And I’m not offering legal advice here. I am simply relating things the way I understand them. Be sure you check with all the appropriate agencies.
Now, a pistol-grip-only Mossberg 500 with a 14″ barrel and the Raptor Grip installed measures 26.5″ in overall length (measured parallel to the bore).
–Marty

 

[Shady]

So is this the kit you need to transform your mossburg into the non nfa gun.

Birds head grip and this kit from buds ?
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/712012558

 

[ROGER4314]

It's an interesting concept but it's contrary to everything that I understand about shotgun regulations. I get the same reaction that I got when I saw the first AK pistols with the "arm support." The locals were having a ball using them as short barreled rifles. WELL......... that went bust. Think I'll just sit tight and hang around to see what happens.

Flash

 

[Southpaw]

It's an interesting concept but it's contrary to everything that I understand about shotgun regulations. I get the same reaction that I got when I saw the first AK pistols with the "arm support." The locals were having a ball using them as short barreled rifles. WELL......... that went bust. Think I'll just sit tight and hang around to see what happens.

Flash

This isn't new and has been around for quite awhile. I think the price tag probably keeps everyone and their brother from doing with it what they did with the brace.

 

[Shady]

its not that expencive depending how you want to do it.

270 bucks for a mossberg maverick 88 PGO I got it from Gallery of guns so I know if you look around you can do better.
Shockwave Raptor grip 30 bucks shipped
Shockwave Raptor lug 45 bucks
hack saw
cold blue.
measure barrel to 14+ what ever you want to be over buy chop it and the mag tube beat the raptor lug on and drill and pin it and you are done.

Or skip the lug and hack saw and get the 14" mossberg kit that has the barrel and front end all done for 215 bucks from Budsgunshop or cheaper than dirt and have a factory look


so 350 if you DIY
or 490 if you do it right

there is also a shop that sells them done with the raptor lug for 600 ish

[h=3][/h]

 

[Tejano Scott]

It's an interesting concept but it's contrary to everything that I understand about shotgun regulations. I get the same reaction that I got when I saw the first AK pistols with the "arm support." The locals were having a ball using them as short barreled rifles. WELL......... that went bust. Think I'll just sit tight and hang around to see what happens.

Flash

I lean towards agreeing with you. But this is the mockery the ATF has saddled us with. You are spot on with the Sig Brace thing that came out, but I still see tons of those. And I actually saw someone shoulder one recently at the range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Southpaw]

its not that expencive depending how you want to do it.

\

I agree, but in comparison to the brace and Roger's comparison of this and the brace, it is for those kind of folks.