Theory that CHL+ Concealed handgun = I can carry an illegal knife/club

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Any expectation of perfection in any field is absurd. And there ARE places that do not have access to electronic Penal Codes or DAs after hours. Actually there are alot of places like that.
Amechanic who believes he is fixing something correctly is not crooked, even if he does something wrong.

 

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Any expectation of perfection in any field is absurd. And there ARE places that do not have access to electronic Penal Codes or DAs after hours. Actually there are alot of places like that.


The standards that some would impose on police would result in having police who would enforce NO laws out of fear of being sued daily.
Its much easier to say how the job should be done then to go out there and do it.

 

[Bithabus]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Any expectation of perfection in any field is absurd. And there ARE places that do not have access to electronic Penal Codes or DAs after hours. Actually there are alot of places like that.
Amechanic who believes he is fixing something correctly is not crooked, even if he does something wrong.

If the error is so extreme that it causes destruction of the vehicle, and it is caused by an arrogant refusal to learn the tools of his craft, I would say he is crooked. A professional is obligated to learn his craft and practice it responsibly. People can make mistakes but some mistakes are inexcusable.

 

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Indeed there are. And we are talking about a bizarre spin on a law that was probably an oversight that has yet to get tested in court. so if an officer arrested someone for carrying an illegal knife, I would hardly call it an arrogant refusal to learn the tools of his trade.

 

[Kimber_me_timbers]

Any expectation of perfection in any field is absurd. And there ARE places that do not have access to electronic Penal Codes or DAs after hours. Actually there are alot of places like that.
A mechanic who believes he is fixing something correctly is not crooked, even if he does something wrong.

Thae standards that some would impose on police would result in having police who would enforce NO laws out of fear of being sued daily.

I uderstand your point T2, but I have to agree with bithabus on the point of electronic PC. These days there is no excuse for not having access to any information. Smart phones are a great example, my phone is so powerful I havent had the need for a real computer in months. Even if youre in podunk and dont get a good network connection, you can download the entire penal code on your phones SD card.

I dont think the problem is with lack of officers access to the PC, but their interpretation of it. No offense T2, I am not a cop basher, but LEO's are NOT qualified to interpret the law. Lawyers have years of schooling to be able to and even then, not always on top of it.

Thats where officers disgression comes in, calculate the totality of the incident and act accordingly. If the law is vague and getting clarification proves to be difficult, and the actor isnt really a threat, or in the commission of a crime, let it go. Most cops I know dont get involved in technicalities generally. And this whole CHL+gun+lightsaber argument is exactly that. A technicality.

 

[Bithabus]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Indeed there are. And we are talking about a bizarre spin on a law that was probably an oversight that has yet to get tested in court. so if an officer arrested someone for carrying an illegal knife, I would hardly call it an arrogant refusal to learn the tools of his trade.

I guess it's a hot issue for me because the exception seems so clear.

 

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

I uderstand your point T2, but I have to agree with bithabus on the point of electronic PC. These days there is no excuse for not having access to any information. Smart phones are a great example, my phone is so powerful I havent had the need for a real computer in months. Even if youre in podunk and dont get a good network connection, you can download the entire penal code on your phones SD card.

I dont think the problem is with lack of officers access to the PC, but their interpretation of it. No offense T2, I am not a cop basher, but LEO's are NOT qualified to interpret the law. Lawyers have years of schooling to be able to and even then, not always on top of it.

Thats where officers disgression comes in, calculate the totality of the incident and act accordingly. If the law is vague and getting clarification proves to be difficult, and the actor isnt really a threat, or in the commission of a crime, let it go. Most cops I know dont get involved in technicalities generally. And this whole CHL+gun+lightsaber argument is exactly that. A technicality.

This is where a city boy shows he is a city boy. In my county I dont even get ANY cell coverage in over half the county. There are some places that the radio in the police car wont transmit or recieve. Cell signal that can actually download data?...lol right. No agency in the entire Judicial District I work in (5 counties) has computers in their cars. Access to data is a huge issue once you get outside urban areas. Most officers in rural areas carry an old fashioned Penal Code book and use it.

Are there officers who arent good at reading the finer points? Yes. It has been my experience that judges and lawyers have more trouble with laws than cops do. I know plenty of both who have asked my interpretation of certain points over lunch. There are judges who can lock you up for a year and have never gone past high school. There are cops with PhDs.

I will disagree on your opinion about LEOs ability to interpret law. Most I know can interpret it very accurately, moreso than judges in many cases.

 

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

I guess it's a hot issue for me because the exception seems so clear.

I guess we should look for someone who was carrying under color of a CHL with a gun and an illegal knife, let them get arrested and then get worked up. I dont know if this has happened anywhere yet.

 

[matefrio]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

I guess we should look for someone who was carrying under color of a CHL with a gun and an illegal knife, let them get arrested and then get worked up. I dont know if this has happened anywhere yet.

As stated it'll most likely never get past the D.A. Charges would be dropped. Now the original trouble someone got in may still be an issue as I'm assuming that a LEO woulnd't hook and drag someone to jail over carrying a long knife alone.

 

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

As stated it'll most likely never get past the D.A. Charges would be dropped. Now the original trouble someone got in may still be an issue as I'm assuming that a LEO woulnd't hook and drag someone to jail over carrying a long knife alone.

My experience is that someone would have to really be an ass to the police, in which case it could happen. I have seen many a gentleman with big knives and taken none to jail. I look at the totality of the circumstance and go from there. I live in a rural area, maybe its different for those in the big city.

 

[Bithabus]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

I guess we should look for someone who was carrying under color of a CHL with a gun and an illegal knife, let them get arrested and then get worked up. I dont know if this has happened anywhere yet.

This illustrates the problem though, what you describe should be impossible (assuming no laws are broken, eg 46.03 etc). Every cop should understand 46.02 and should know there is a long list of exceptions. Every cop should know that he or she may legally carry a handgun, club, or illegal knife for exactly the same reason the CHL holder may: 46.02 does not apply. The double standard harms everyone.

 

[Bithabus]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

My experience is that someone would have to really be an ass to the police, in which case it could happen. I have seen many a gentleman with big knives and taken none to jail. I look at the totality of the circumstance and go from there. I live in a rural area, maybe its different for those in the big city.

If I walk down 6th street carrying one of my swords, I believe there is a good chance I would be wrongfully arrested.

 

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

You would know better than I....that is not my arena. Where I am, you would draw our attention and we would take it at face value from there.

 

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

I can appreciate you guys and your frustration with being arrested for an offense that really isnt an offense. Trust me when I say we strive to see that those incidents dont occur.

We always have room for improvement.

 

[matefrio]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Fed up with the world of theory. Decided it's time to start carrying.

Looking for some help deciding on an every day carry Bowie knife.

I'm not trying to be an ass but I see too much talk without action here and other forums where this horse had been beaten too long.

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gear-accessories/28691-bowie-knife-every-day-carry.html

I'm well aware of the hell this may bring. I have hope and faith in our system and I'm tired of typing on this keyboard about a right\privilege\loophole? I've never taken advantage of as a knife enthusiast.

I've carried a pocket knife from when I was 8 or so. A fixed blade over 5.5 inches may come in handy as well.

I'll return and report how things work out over the next couple of months. Now the fun part. To look for a nice knife :-)

 

[Kimber_me_timbers]

There are alot of double standards when it comes to a peace officer in the commission of his duties, so bithabus, you make a moot point. We CHL holders are not cops, and we are not empowered to the same degree, and I think that far too many people fail to see the line.

Take the Taser® X26 Electronic Control Device for example. CHL'ers cant legally carry one, alot of cops do. Cops open carry on-duty but are forbidden to do so off-duty.

As a hardcore constitutionalist I agree with you, but the reality is, representatives of authority will always have the upper hand over commonfolk.

T2, regarding the raggedy ass hardcopy of the penal code you were referring to earlier, dude, really?
I think you missed the part where I suggested downloading a copy of it to the sd card in your smartphone, you dont need signal to do this, do it from the computer at your house or office or whatever, that way you can use the search function instead of wasting your time and the actors time while you thumb through a coffee stained book.

Dont have a smartphone? Then buy an ebook reader on ebay, they go pretty cheap these days.

 

[Texan2]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Cops are not forbidden to OC off duty. Not in texas.

I understand your point about the Penal Code but my point was that the ease of info you have isnt the case everyhere.

good points have been made by many in this thread.

 

[Kimber_me_timbers]

Well it damn well should be! Cant remember who said it, but something along the lines of "an educated society will not fall into subversion" or something like that.

 

[Bithabus]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Take the Taser® X26 Electronic Control Device for example. CHL'ers cant legally carry one, alot of cops do.

You can carry a Taser if you want.

 

[matefrio]

Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

Take the Taser® X26 Electronic Control Device for example. CHL'ers cant legally carry one, alot of cops do. Cops open carry on-duty but are forbidden to do so off-duty.

The Taser® company won't sell the longer range ones to civilians. Policy may not let LEOs carry a X26 off duty but the law isn't against carrying one in Texas.