Thinking about a rifle purchase

[Dougw1515]

My vote is gen two. I’m not a fan of the over travel stop.

so that would be a PMAG 30 AR/M4 GEN 2 MOE?

 

[Maverick44]

For Pmags in a run of the mill AR, Gen 2 is fine. The Gen 3s were redesigned a bit so that they would fit in more guns. The Gen 2s are a bit too fat for some guns.

Something I should mention about that WWSD 2020 build is the mag. Gen 2 Pmags will fit in the new receiver design, but they will not drop freely. The Gen 3s will. The price difference is small enough that it doesn't really matter unless you already have a ton of Gen 2s on hand.

 

[Sam7sf]

so that would be a PMAG 30 AR/M4 GEN 2 MOE?

Yes. Gen two is cheaper. Get whatever you want. They make good mags.

 

[Sam7sf]

For Pmags in a run of the mill AR, Gen 2 is fine. The Gen 3s were redesigned a bit so that they would fit in more guns. The Gen 2s are a bit too fat for some guns.

Something I should mention about that WWSD 2020 build is the mag. Gen 2 Pmags will fit in the new receiver design, but they will not drop freely. The Gen 3s will. The price difference is small enough that it doesn't really matter unless you already have a ton of Gen 2s on hand.

I could argue that if that’s the case, some manufacturers need to be consistent in manufacturing.

I have my reasons for liking gen two better. All are nit picky.
I love d&h and similar

 

[Dougw1515]

You're not going to see much of a difference between 16" and 18". Especially at 100 yards. A 16" barrel is effective out to about 500 yards, though you can make hits past 600. Most small arms combat takes place within 300 yards. Self defense tends to happen a heck of a lot closer.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .223 Rifle Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

You probably want to keep your bullet selection between 55gr and 77gr. I believe the military mostly uses 62gr. The old M16 barrels had a twist rate geared towards lighter bullets. Modern barrels are usually gear towards heavier bullets. You can shoot the lighter stuff still (to a degree), but the guns generally shoot better with something in the 60+ gr range. I think the standard now is a 1:8 twist.

For $1500, you could probably get a BCM and a decent optic, or you could build a really nice one (probably a bit cheaper).

Now, if you are wanting something a little different, this will be hitting the market soon. You would probably have to wait a few months as they said the complete rifles will be the last thing they ship, and it will go over your budget a bit (does not come with optic either), but having basically built a clone of this rifle, I have to say it's fantastic. If you are interested, I would suggest looking into what they did for their 2017 version. They go into the meaning of each part and why it was chosen, as well as what purpose behind this build was. The 2020 version is just an update of the original design with a few improvements. Mainly the receiver.

Trigger Times | Brownells

Trigger Times | Brownells

www.brownells.com

Semi-Auto | Rifles at Brownells

Brownells is your source for Semi-Auto,Rifles at Brownells parts and accessories. Shop our vast selection and save!

www.brownells.com

Here is the playlist for the design process of the 2017 version. It's about 15 videos long (it was a long process).

Sooooooo.... I think I found what I was looking for. I'm going to call'em tomorrow and see what their current production schedule is. And... any AR15 magazine will fit this?

 

[Maverick44]

I could argue that if that’s the case, some manufacturers need to be consistent in manufacturing.

I have my reasons for liking gen two better. All are nit picky.
I love d&h and similar

I believe it was mainly non-AR designs that were designed to use STANAG style mags before Pmags became the defacto standard.

 

[Dougw1515]

How's about a Pmag D60? 60 round drum... might have to get me one of those!!!

 

[Maverick44]

Sooooooo.... I think I found what I was looking for. I'm going to call'em tomorrow and see what their current production schedule is. And... any AR15 magazine will fit this?

Call KE arms? I can save you a call. They are currently cranking out complete lowers. They plan on doing stripped lowers in a couple of weeks. After they get caught up on those orders, they will do complete rifles, which last I checked they didn't have a ton of ordered though that may have changed. They have around 20,000 preorders, and they can crank around 500-1000 per week. They are very hesitant in giving a concrete schedule since people act like the world is ending if they miss a deadline even slightly. They are trying to get more people hired and trained to speed up production. I'm a member of the InRange discord and the main guy who is over the design of the lower (Russell Phagen AKA Sinistral Rifleman) is on that discord pretty much daily.

They have been VERY open about the design of the receiver and the way in which it is being made. More so than I think any other firearm company in history.

I would guess that rifles will start shipping after January.

There are NOT WWSD builds, they were just showing off some of the monolithic receivers that they're going to be using. Unlike normal polymer lowers, they are made to be TOUGH. They were designed from the ground up to be made of polymer, so they will not be fragile like those cheap polymer lowers that are basically 1:1 clones of a normal aluminum lower. The grip, stock, and buffer tube are all integral. It's very light, has a flared magwell, and like I said are tough. They tested one of these by beating the crap out of a post with one. The receiver was fine.

 

[PinnedandRecessed]

How's about a Pmag D60? 60 round drum... might have to get me one of those!!!

As far as drums go, I believe the D60 is at the top of the heap. Haven't heard anything negative about them besides the fact that its a drum.

 

[Dougw1515]

Well...actually ordered 5 - 40 round and 5 - 20 round mags. Might get the 60 round drum after I've been on an exercise regimen for a while so I'm able to tote all'a that ammo.

 

[Maverick44]

Sooooooo.... I think I found what I was looking for. I'm going to call'em tomorrow and see what their current production schedule is. And... any AR15 magazine will fit this?

As for the mags, like I said. Gen 2 Pmags will fit, but won't drop freely. Gen 3s will. The 40 round mags should be just fine. I will ask about the drum.

 

[baboon]

How's about a Pmag D60? 60 round drum... might have to get me one of those!!!

I have 5 of them. They run fine in the M-16 as does the SureFire 60 round mags.

 

[Dougw1515]

After a little research it appears that the WWSD AR15 is the first turn key AR that KE will offer. Is this a correct assumption?


ETA: I ordered the Gen 3 mags.

 

[Maverick44]

After a little research it appears that the WWSD AR15 is the first turn key AR that KE will offer. Is this a correct assumption?


ETA: I ordered the Gen 3 mags.

No, they've made others.

KE-15 Products

KE-15

www.kearms.com

The WWSD is kind of a unique design though. It's not like other ARs on the market. I believe the barrel will be a 16" Faxon pencil barrel with a titanium A2 style flash hider with some kind of special coating. The handguard will probably be a Faxon carbon fiber free floated handguard. The lower is that monolithic polymer lower, it will likely have a JP Enterprises silent captured spring buffer, a KE Arms SLT-1 trigger (EXTREMELY nice trigger BTW), an ambidextrous safety and I think bolt release (PDQ?). I think the charging handle will be an ambidextrous Geissele super charging handle. I think they were talking about going with a chrome coated BCG.

They haven't announced the official parts list for the 2020 WWSD, but you can kind of infer what they're going with based on what they've said and what they did in 2017.

The entire idea behind WWSD was to build the lightest, most practical rifle they could using modern materials.

 

[seeker_two]

View attachment 235129

Too old and heavy. Probably wouldn't even function in combat conditions.....

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Moonpie]

Too old and heavy. Probably wouldn't even function in combat conditions.....

 

[Maverick44]

Sooooooo.... I think I found what I was looking for. I'm going to call'em tomorrow and see what their current production schedule is. And... any AR15 magazine will fit this?

Russell said that the D60 would fit the WWSD lower.

 

[zackmars]

The old cav arms style of lowers made sense 10 years ago, but now you can get a milspec lower set up with a replacable grip and adjustable stock that is not only cheaper, but actually a bit lighter.

Imho get a good quality upper with a lightweight 16" barrel, good aluminum 13" free floated handguard, and a standard lower if your choice

 

[Maverick44]

The old cav arms style of lowers made sense 10 years ago, but now you can get a milspec lower set up with a replacable grip and adjustable stock that is not only cheaper, but actually a bit lighter.

Imho get a good quality upper with a lightweight 16" barrel, good aluminum 13" free floated handguard, and a standard lower if your choice

I believe Russell Phagan (the designer) actually used to work over at Cav arms. He said those things were not that great. They're definitely not to the same standards, and the design wasn't as good. This new lower is not the same. These are also extremely light.

Keep in mind one thing. The KP-15 lower has a carbine buffer and spring in it. The standard lower doesn't.

 

[PinnedandRecessed]

Buy this and call it a day. Man, spending other peoples money is easy. I can see why democrats love it so much. http://shop.bravocompanymfg.com/BCM-RECCE-16-MCMR-Carbine-AR15-p/bcm-carbine-750-750.htm You'll just need to add BUIS, Optic, handstop/vfg, sling, and a light. GTG.