Ukraine invasion

[oldag]

A preview of what the U.S. is facing if we ever reinstate the Draft!

Russian conscripts drink and brawl as they are shipped out to Ukraine

Russians drafted into the army and beginning their journey to the frontlines of Ukraine have been filmed drinking and brawling, in scenes that could soon be repeated on the battlefields of Donbas.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I doubt ours would be brawling. More like bawling and looking for a safe space and crayons.

 

[Brains]

There's always the new Air Force

 

[Tnhawk]

There's always the new Air Force

Much of the 18-26 age group couldn't function in the USAF environment. Army, Navy or Marines wouldn't be an option.

 

[Darkpriest667]

Drafts should be illegal. Conscription is ridiculous. if there is another draft in this country, evne though I wouldn't be subject to it, I would fight like hell against it.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Drafts should be illegal. Conscription is ridiculous. if there is another draft in this country, evne though I wouldn't be subject to it, I would fight like hell against it.

Drafts and taxes are evidence of the percentage a government feels they own you and your labor.

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[Tnhawk]

Drafts should be illegal. Conscription is ridiculous. if there is another draft in this country, evne though I wouldn't be subject to it, I would fight like hell against it.

Many of us thought that the draft should have been illegal during the Vietnam era. I chose to enlist to avoid being drafted.
My monthly pay was about $75 until I began flight training. Most of us from that generation were taught that we had an obligation to serve if called, just as we have an obligation to pay taxes.

 

[Darkpriest667]

Many of us thought that the draft should have been illegal during the Vietnam era. I chose to enlist to avoid being drafted.
My monthly pay was about $75 until I began flight training. Most of us from that generation were taught that we had an obligation to serve if called, just as we have an obligation to pay taxes.

To invade a foreign country? No. the military is for defense and we use it for nation building. **** these people doing this and **** their philosophy. You did what you thought was right, but what is NOT right is us getting involved in pissing matches with every power in the world. Maybe we should mind our own fucking business. Either glass their asses or don't get involved.

 

[gll]

Many of us thought that the draft should have been illegal during the Vietnam era. I chose to enlist to avoid being drafted.
My monthly pay was about $75 until I began flight training. Most of us from that generation were taught that we had an obligation to serve if called, just as we have an obligation to pay taxes.

I was 18 in '73, so just missed the draft as the war was ending, but I was fully ready to serve until I didn't have to. Was even in JROTC, doing what little I could to get a jumpstart!

Looking back, and knowing all that has transpired since, I wish I had the guts to plan to go to Canada if my number came up..., but I never entertained that idea then...

 

[Brains]

I might be wired a little differently, but I'd proudly put on the uniform and stand with my brothers.

What I will not do is follow any unconstitutional order.

 

[popper]

Pootin just getting reserves and ex-military. Also having 'voting' in many eastern Ukraine cities to 'validate' they are Russian so he can say west attacked Russia. What a POS. Has to lie to his own people and use those lies to justify what he can't by any other means.
Don't want a draft? Why? 6 wars before now, young men and women fought to give YOU freedom. I realize many of you think our military is pretty poor and I somewhat agree. But it won't get better without good people. Our Mil. wasn't in any good shape prior to those wars either!

 

[seeker_two]

Sure....round up a bunch of angry anti-Putin Rus, give them military arms and equipment, and cut them loose among the officer corps......what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Armybrat]

 

[Aus_Schwaben]

Coming to the polling place near you - soldiers making folks vote "correctly". Today regions of the Ukraine and tomorrow Red States of the U.S.

Armed Russian soldiers 'force residents to cast their vote'

Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, and Crimea are all Ukrainian regions under Russian occupation where the referendums are being held - with the results fixed by Moscow.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tnhawk]

Coming to the polling place near you - soldiers making folks vote "correctly". Today regions of the Ukraine and tomorrow Red States of the U.S.

Armed Russian soldiers 'force residents to cast their vote'

Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, and Crimea are all Ukrainian regions under Russian occupation where the referendums are being held - with the results fixed by Moscow.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is an idea liberals would love to bring to America.

 

[Sasquatch]

View attachment 346068

to be fair, the landlines might be more secure than radio based telecommunications. Provided they never get bounced to satellite or radio towers for transmission.

 

[Sasquatch]

Pootin just getting reserves and ex-military. Also having 'voting' in many eastern Ukraine cities to 'validate' they are Russian so he can say west attacked Russia. What a POS. Has to lie to his own people and use those lies to justify what he can't by any other means.
Don't want a draft? Why? 6 wars before now, young men and women fought to give YOU freedom. I realize many of you think our military is pretty poor and I somewhat agree. But it won't get better without good people. Our Mil. wasn't in any good shape prior to those wars either!

6 wars ago - WW2? Bit of a difference in that war, vs our current conflicts. Pearl Harbor was as clear of an attack on the US as could have been - and Europe didn't want the US getting involved in the war. The Japanese were pissed off at the embargos placed against them and thus struck out at us. They hit the only reasonable American target for them - that being the naval base in Hawaii. An attack on the mainland US was far less likely to succeed - the only "successful" attacks, if you can call them that - came by a single plane and a bunch of balloons dropping fire bombs along the west coast. They never got the effect they desired - that being setting off massive raging forest fires that would frighten the public and expend resources and take manpower away from other efforts.

One could argue that 9-11 was akin to Pearl Harbor - but 9-11 was not planned or lead by regular troops from a readily identifiable country. It was a shit excuse to invade the dirt farmers in Afghanistan and later Iraq.

WW2 was also the last war we actually won - the only one we got an actual surrender by the aggressing powers with lasting political implications. Iraq is still a shit show, and after 20 years in Afghanistan - the bad guys not only remained in control, but they were better off - after getting money, weapons, and equipment we left behind for them. We - that being the US government - wound up creating ISIS thanks to our actions in the middle east (Thanks Obama)

We have not been under a real military threat from any foriegn power since the end of the cold war. Krazy Kims in Korea make noise, but have no ability to back it up. Russia wasn't about to start a war with us. China wasn't going to start a war and cripple their economy by attacking their A # 1 best customer. Germany couldn't even pull off a successful invasion of Poland today if they wanted - not that they want to.

If the US actually stayed the hell out of other nation's affairs and stopped meddling - no one would want to attack us. Even still - Russia isn't angling for a fight with the US - they're having a hard enough time in Ukraine, let alone taking on the US in a head to head match. China isn't going to war with us - they'll probably call our bluff on Taiwan soon though.

Unless the US is attacked by a foreign power again akin to Pearl Harbor, or worse - a draft would simply be unquestionably stupid and wrong. The draft in Vietnam was incredibly stupid and wrong, and we had no business interferring there to begin with. Yes, yes, we were officially there to stop the march of communism. Instead it cost a lot of American lives, billions of dollars, made a bunch of rich people even richer and left us embarrassed on the world stage as our "leaders" tucked tail and ran. Kind of like Afghanistan.

That is not to disparage the American fighting man - its to disparage the piss poor leadership among the highest ranking officers and the civilian "leaders" above them. No matter how well equipped, well trained, well conditioned the front line soldiers are - piss poor leadership and the lack of conviction to actually FIGHT will lead to the same outcomes, unless those front light fighting men disobey orders and do what they're really trained to do. But then they'd all be shot or hung or imprisoned for life as war criminals.

No on in Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq 2.0 was actually fighting for OUR freedom here in the US. Not a single one of those nations posed a threat to us, nor did they give our enemies much in the way of strategic positions they didn't already have before. Iraq hadn't been our ally since Saddam turned on us in the 80's. The Russians and Chinese didn't need the Korean peninsula to be a threat to Japan, Hawaii, Okinawa, or Alaska. The invention of the ICBM likewise made international bases just a fucking waste of tax dollars - a way to prop up the economies of other nations at the expense of our own.

Current active duty military members are struggling to survive in those overseas posts - not because of the threat posed by Vladamir Putin or Xi Jin Ping - but because they can't fucking afford to eat AND pay rent or heat their homes, and the response by the top "leadership" was to tell those soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines to go get on fucking welfare. That's some shit leadership. A government that won't even pay soldiers enough to live has absolutely no business conscripting people into its military.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Many of us thought that the draft should have been illegal during the Vietnam era. I chose to enlist to avoid being drafted.
My monthly pay was about $75 until I began flight training. Most of us from that generation were taught that we had an obligation to serve if called, just as we have an obligation to pay taxes.

I salute your service sir.

I simply find a draft distasteful and suspect I am influenced by our founders' fears of standing armies... I do think their is a huge failure to instill a culture of service to others in some of the current generations.

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[cycleguy2300]

6 wars ago - WW2? Bit of a difference in that war, vs our current conflicts. Pearl Harbor was as clear of an attack on the US as could have been - and Europe didn't want the US getting involved in the war. The Japanese were pissed off at the embargos placed against them and thus struck out at us. They hit the only reasonable American target for them - that being the naval base in Hawaii. An attack on the mainland US was far less likely to succeed - the only "successful" attacks, if you can call them that - came by a single plane and a bunch of balloons dropping fire bombs along the west coast. They never got the effect they desired - that being setting off massive raging forest fires that would frighten the public and expend resources and take manpower away from other efforts.

One could argue that 9-11 was akin to Pearl Harbor - but 9-11 was not planned or lead by regular troops from a readily identifiable country. It was a shit excuse to invade the dirt farmers in Afghanistan and later Iraq.

WW2 was also the last war we actually won - the only one we got an actual surrender by the aggressing powers with lasting political implications. Iraq is still a shit show, and after 20 years in Afghanistan - the bad guys not only remained in control, but they were better off - after getting money, weapons, and equipment we left behind for them. We - that being the US government - wound up creating ISIS thanks to our actions in the middle east (Thanks Obama)

We have not been under a real military threat from any foriegn power since the end of the cold war. Krazy Kims in Korea make noise, but have no ability to back it up. Russia wasn't about to start a war with us. China wasn't going to start a war and cripple their economy by attacking their A # 1 best customer. Germany couldn't even pull off a successful invasion of Poland today if they wanted - not that they want to.

If the US actually stayed the hell out of other nation's affairs and stopped meddling - no one would want to attack us. Even still - Russia isn't angling for a fight with the US - they're having a hard enough time in Ukraine, let alone taking on the US in a head to head match. China isn't going to war with us - they'll probably call our bluff on Taiwan soon though.

Unless the US is attacked by a foreign power again akin to Pearl Harbor, or worse - a draft would simply be unquestionably stupid and wrong. The draft in Vietnam was incredibly stupid and wrong, and we had no business interferring there to begin with. Yes, yes, we were officially there to stop the march of communism. Instead it cost a lot of American lives, billions of dollars, made a bunch of rich people even richer and left us embarrassed on the world stage as our "leaders" tucked tail and ran. Kind of like Afghanistan.

That is not to disparage the American fighting man - its to disparage the piss poor leadership among the highest ranking officers and the civilian "leaders" above them. No matter how well equipped, well trained, well conditioned the front line soldiers are - piss poor leadership and the lack of conviction to actually FIGHT will lead to the same outcomes, unless those front light fighting men disobey orders and do what they're really trained to do. But then they'd all be shot or hung or imprisoned for life as war criminals.

No on in Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq 2.0 was actually fighting for OUR freedom here in the US. Not a single one of those nations posed a threat to us, nor did they give our enemies much in the way of strategic positions they didn't already have before. Iraq hadn't been our ally since Saddam turned on us in the 80's. The Russians and Chinese didn't need the Korean peninsula to be a threat to Japan, Hawaii, Okinawa, or Alaska. The invention of the ICBM likewise made international bases just a fucking waste of tax dollars - a way to prop up the economies of other nations at the expense of our own.

Current active duty military members are struggling to survive in those overseas posts - not because of the threat posed by Vladamir Putin or Xi Jin Ping - but because they can't fucking afford to eat AND pay rent or heat their homes, and the response by the top "leadership" was to tell those soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines to go get on fucking welfare. That's some shit leadership. A government that won't even pay soldiers enough to live has absolutely no business conscripting people into its military.

Japanese subs fired upon coastal targets with their deck guns early in the war too...

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[Sasquatch]

Japanese subs fired upon coastal targets with their deck guns early in the war too...

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Yeah, they cruised the west coast between Oregon and Canada mostly - they shelled Fort Stevens (just south of Astoria, Oregon) - the closest they came to damaging anything was hitting the backstop of a baseball field somewhat near to a gun emplacement.

They also attacked a civilian freighter, failing to sink it. It was towed back into a nearby bay for repair.

 

[Tnhawk]

I simply find a draft distasteful and suspect I am influenced by our founders' fears of standing armies... I do think their is a huge failure to instill a culture of service to others in some of the current generations.

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Large standing armies should be unnecessary. Reserve, National Guard and State Guard units composed of the citizens should be trained and maintained to support the needs of our State and Federal governments.