USA out of Iran deal

[dmancornell]

I can tell you have never spent time in the bloody arena. When the dust settles we clear the battlefield, we examine the bodies and hate to break this to you, but Japanese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Chinese etc ALL look different.

You're basing your racial judgement from height and the skin tone differences from corpses. Good one. Maybe I can learn phrenology too if I signed up.

Can you address how your statement has zero historical evidence and flies directly in the face of the political chasm splitting the communist world at the time?

N Vietnam was looking for any help it could get, we were kicking their asses up and down S Vietnam. The Ruskys were there, just not on the battlefield, Russia and the Chinese would have loved to see the US go down in defeat on the killing fields and its also where they get training for their threat assessments. How do those Americans fight on the field of death.

Hate to break it to you, you weren't winning. Body count is a contrived metric of victory. Out of all people you should know that by now if you studied their strategies. Or maybe you should have studied your own strategy to see how useless it was, LOL.

Its clear that your knowledge is limited to what you read in the leftist rags and from your discussions in your circle jerks with those who are as limited in knowledge as yourself. I listened to the experts like yourself when I stepped off the DMZ of Vietnam onto a college campus in 1969. I later went back as an Infantry Officer and made a career of studying our enemies tactics and strategic thinking and I will tell you their politics are the ruse for their real intent. And as I stated this is why America plays the global role it does. You should understand, military actions are the true politics, its clear you have no concept or would see the China for what it really is thinking!

You might want to find another field to be a keyboard expert in because this ain't it!

Pro-tip: being a American soldier teaches you absolutely nothing about the motives of the politicians who give you the orders. Naturally you want to justify your sacrifice by believing it was for something good, so you actually believe your own delusions, for example, Chinese PLA fighting in Vietnam. Get back to reality.

 

[pronstar]

To state the Soviet and Chinese communists played no role in Vietnam is laughable.

The extent to which each contributed is up for debate, but the combined support from both was significant and vital.

Retarded ROE for US warfighters played a large role in our defeat. As did liberal political winds back home that caused a nation to spit on broken heroes who returned.

We didn’t have the political will to win this war. And we sacrificed 50,000 of our nations finest while politicians did what they do best.

How do I know this?
My dad was a spook in South Vietnam for 6 years, retired CW4. My mom was born in Saigon, her college education allowed her to work for the same “telecom” company my dad worked for.

Most of my mom’s family was tortured killed by the VC.

The revisionist history being spewed in this thread disgusts me.

Thankfully the ignore function works.

Peace out.


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[dmancornell]

To state the Soviet and Chinese communists played no role in Vietnam is laughable.

The extent to which each contributed is up for debate, but the combined support from both was significant and vital.

Retarded ROE for US warfighters played a large role in our defeat. As did liberal political winds back home that caused a nation to spit on broken heroes who returned.

We didn’t have the political will to win this war. And we sacrificed 50,000 of our nations finest while politicians did what they do best.

How do I know this?
My dad was a spook in South Vietnam for 6 years, retired CW4. My mom was born in Saigon, her college education allowed her to work for the same “telecom” company my dad worked for.

Most of my mom’s family was tortured killed by the VC.

The revisionist history being spewed in this thread disgusts me.

Thankfully the ignore function works.

Peace out.


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Don't move the goalposts. Logistical contribution and significant combat contribution are two different things. The former is well documented, the latter is not. The latter is being discussed.

By retarded ROE, do you mean free-fire shoot to kill operations like Operation Speedy Express and My Lai? Do you really want this country to have the political will to execute those types of operations? It's all documented here: https://www.amazon.com/Kill-Anything-That-Moves-American/dp/0805086919

And if you're going to talk about VC torture, let's not forget the Phoenix Program killed tens of thousands of Vietnamese people and many on the flimsiest of grounds.

Besides, maybe if the US didn't side with the French in the 50's in a cynical attempt to bribe France into joining NATO, the VC wouldn't have tortured your mother's family to death. Think about it.

 

[pronstar]

Did someone say something?


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[dmancornell]

Just your own echo

 

[easy rider]

What cell are you in again?

 

[TxStetson]

Did someone say something?


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I put that dude on ignore a long time ago.

 

[AustinN4]

Besides, maybe if the US didn't side with the French in the 50's in a cynical attempt to bribe France into joining NATO, the VC wouldn't have tortured your mother's family to death. Think about it.

HCM asked the US for help in ending French colonialism and was refused, which many say is what drove Ho to China.

 

[dmancornell]

HCM asked the US for help in ending French colonialism and was refused, which many say is what drove Ho to China.

To the Soviet Union. Back in the 50's the USSR was still the dominant party in the Communist International. Mao's China was subservient up to the Sino-Soviet split, at which point Ho went with the Soviets.

 

[AustinN4]

To the Soviet Union. Back in the 50's the USSR was still the dominant party in the Communist International. Mao's China was subservient up to the Sino-Soviet split, at which point Ho went with the Soviets.

And you know this how?:
1. Personal experience with Ho? (double entendre, LOL)
2. Reading history books?
3. Class at UCLA?
4. Other? Please describe.

 

[easy rider]

Tehran University?

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Could be interesting, I was there...

You're basing your racial judgement from height and the skin tone differences from corpses. Good one. Maybe I can learn phrenology too if I signed up.

Can you address how your statement has zero historical evidence and flies directly in the face of the political chasm splitting the communist world at the time?

Hate to break it to you, you weren't winning. Body count is a contrived metric of victory. Out of all people you should know that by now if you studied their strategies. Or maybe you should have studied your own strategy to see how useless it was, LOL.

Pro-tip: being a American soldier teaches you absolutely nothing about the motives of the politicians who give you the orders. Naturally you want to justify your sacrifice by believing it was for something good, so you actually believe your own delusions, for example, Chinese PLA fighting in Vietnam. Get back to reality.

Only someone who thinks all Asians look alike would say something like that. No don't think you could learn anything if you signed up.

Again, you show a complete lack of understanding, war makes strange bedfellows, communists hated America far more than they may have hated Vietnam...duh!

You are so right body count don't count...yea we WON WWII with less than 500,000 KIA vs MILLIONS KIA on the other side of the battlefield. Your ignorance is really showing...Soldiers win battles, Politicians lose wars...but you got to be smart enough to separate the killing fields from the White House.

Your grip on reality is so tenuous your world is more delusional than honest. We combat soldiers know a LOT about the strategic thinking of politicians because we are on the receiving end of the equation. Like when LBJ stopped the bombing in N Vietnam, there was hell to pay on the ground. Even as a kid I knew LBJ was a fool for his actions.

But time and rank goes by and my last ten years of my career found me sitting on 4 Star prime staff in Strategic Operations, Plans and Doctrine and that is where we delve into the world of Geo-Politics in order to do the planning necessary to develop the training and war plans for the future. We were discussing war in the ME in the 70's, in fact we were reasonably sure it was going to occur. I can tell you now we are planning well into the future, we must, we have no other choice. We know more about where China is going than China does and I can assure you, we will be prepared.

I know you cannot accept that, you like so many, in fact most want to believe: "don't you guys just camp out in the woods and ride around on tanks all day"?

Sadly, this morning you came to mind as I walked into Wal Mart, there was this lady clearly wrestling with a couple of shopping carts that seemed to be stuck together. She was cursing and quite agitated and determined to win despite all the free-standing carts sitting around. Suddenly the Greeter walked over and said to her as he easily pulled the baskets apart..."lady, you have to be smarter than the damn cart"!

On that note I will conclude, your diatribes and drivel have outlasted even the amusement of watching you struggle with a shopping cart.

 

[dmancornell]

And you know this how?:
1. Personal experience with Ho? (double entendre, LOL)
2. Reading history books?
3. Class at UCLA?
4. Other? Please describe.

Mostly #2. Ho accepted Chinese aid when Khrushchev espoused a Europe first policy, and reluctantly so due to hereditary distrust of China by the Vietnamese. The fall of Khrushchev led to Vietnam returning to the Soviet sphere. The Vietnamese leadership also ignored Mao's warfare theories which annoyed him greatly.

 

[AustinN4]

Even as a kid I knew LBJ was a fool for his actions.

Tonkin of Gulf lie; oops, I mean Resolution.

 

[dmancornell]

Only someone who thinks all Asians look alike would say something like that. No don't think you could learn anything if you signed up.

Please educate everyone on how you can tell a Vietnamese person from say, a Hui minority from China. Or even just a Han Chinese who spends a lot of time in the sun. Especially when the body is a corpse in the sun for a day or two. Good luck with that.

Again, you show a complete lack of understanding, war makes strange bedfellows, communists hated America far more than they may have hated Vietnam...duh!

The Vietnamese hated foreign invaders more than anything else, politics was purely secondary. Do you think the Vietnamese people would hate Americans if the Americans didn't slaughter a million of them? Besides, nothing you say proves Chinese PLA were on the ground in Vietnam.

You are so right body count don't count...yea we WON WWII with less than 500,000 KIA vs MILLIONS KIA on the other side of the battlefield. Your ignorance is really showing...Soldiers win battles, Politicians lose wars...but you got to be smart enough to separate the killing fields from the White House.

Blame games. The Pentagon failed to come up with a coherent strategy to achieve the political goals set by politicians, so they failed at their job. The soldiers failed to come up with tactics to achieve that strategy, so you have things like Operation Speedy Express which ensured the Vietnamese people will never support the puppet regime in Saigon. Soldiers lose battles all the time, deal with it.

Your grip on reality is so tenuous your world is more delusional than honest. We combat soldiers know a LOT about the strategic thinking of politicians because we are on the receiving end of the equation. Like when LBJ stopped the bombing in N Vietnam, there was hell to pay on the ground. Even as a kid I knew LBJ was a fool for his actions.

Hah. Rolling Thunder dropped more bombs onto North Vietnam than the entirety of the American air war in Europe and you're still whining? On top of that, LBJ himself flat out said that Rolling Thunder (and Nixon with Linebacker later on) was to demonstrate American resolve to North Vietnam to bring them to negotiate.

On the other hand, the military leaders actually believed they can bomb North Vietnam into submission (they didn't learn that lesson in Germany). And they were given free rein to execute Commando Hunt on the HCM Trail. Alas, they failed at stopping NV logistics... so yet again, soldiers lose battles.

But time and rank goes by and my last ten years of my career found me sitting on 4 Star prime staff in Strategic Operations, Plans and Doctrine and that is where we delve into the world of Geo-Politics in order to do the planning necessary to develop the training and war plans for the future. We were discussing war in the ME in the 70's, in fact we were reasonably sure it was going to occur. I can tell you now we are planning well into the future, we must, we have no other choice. We know more about where China is going than China does and I can assure you, we will be prepared.

The military justifies its existence by demonstrating its need for funding, hence "studies". Unfortunately, your plans for the future often contradict reality. For example, the USSR collapsed on its own. Iraq went rogue after the Iraq-Iran war. And so on.

And if there aren't any real enemies, you need to concoct them to justify your own existence. Hence this bluster about "we will be prepared". If you don't tilt at windmills, you're unemployed.

I know you cannot accept that, you like so many, in fact most want to believe: "don't you guys just camp out in the woods and ride around on tanks all day"?

The American military follow orders from politicians. And politicians are really good at lying, and hiding their motives and intent. That's their job.

Sadly, this morning you came to mind as I walked into Wal Mart, there was this lady clearly wrestling with a couple of shopping carts that seemed to be stuck together. She was cursing and quite agitated and determined to win despite all the free-standing carts sitting around. Suddenly the Greeter walked over and said to her as he easily pulled the baskets apart..."lady, you have to be smarter than the damn cart"!

On that note I will conclude, your diatribes and drivel have outlasted even the amusement of watching you struggle with a shopping cart.

I figure your analogy is more apt to the American strategy in Vietnam: just keep doing it more even if it doesn't work. Apparently you never learnt that lesson.

 

[gaines67]

Tehran University?

Fantastic. Did I miss the love it or leave it comments?


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[pronstar]

This just keep getting better and better.

Iran’s Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hossein Jaberi Ansari warned Western officials this week that if they do not put pressure on the Trump administration the Iranian regime will leak the names of all Western officials who were bribed to pass the weak deal.


http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-officials-who-took-bribes-to-pass-nuke-deal/


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[dmancornell]

This just keep getting better and better.

Iran’s Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hossein Jaberi Ansari warned Western officials this week that if they do not put pressure on the Trump administration the Iranian regime will leak the names of all Western officials who were bribed to pass the weak deal.


http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-officials-who-took-bribes-to-pass-nuke-deal/


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And suddenly you believe the Iranians.

"The Iranians are lying about everything, except when what they say aligns with my opinions."

 

[F350-6]

..... Besides, nothing you say proves Chinese PLA were on the ground in Vietnam.....

It's really not that hard to verify. Have you heard of Google? Or perhaps the Washington Post?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...8bf-80d2-bea80f64057c/?utm_term=.19d653bed42f

Google can even find links to things from before Google existed (which comes in handy when discussing things like Nam)

Out of curiosity, what other subjects are you a keyboard expert on?

 

[dmancornell]

It's really not that hard to verify. Have you heard of Google? Or perhaps the Washington Post?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...8bf-80d2-bea80f64057c/?utm_term=.19d653bed42f

Google can even find links to things from before Google existed (which comes in handy when discussing things like Nam)

Out of curiosity, what other subjects are you a keyboard expert on?

Check the article date: May 17, 1989. And then:

"In a report monitored in Hong Kong, the semi-official China News Service said China sent the soldiers to Vietnam during the 1960s and spent over $20 billion to support Hanoi's regular North Vietnamese Army and Viet Cong guerrilla units."

So not even a direct source, just a claim on an report intercepted by some intelligence agency. Sounds totally legitimate. And nothing in almost 30 years since. You do realize if this was actually real, the stolen valor Vietnam revisionists would have been all over it because it would prove everything they've been saying? Write a book. Get it out. Oh wait... its just more rearguard BS.

Washington Compost spreading that old school fake news.