Warning Shots, and Shoot to Wound...

[Tuff]

I received trauma training in the last year. Your theories are out of date. And some of your points, like getting back in the fight, are incorrect altogether.

This is correct....Ischemic complications from tourniquet use have been found to be related to the amount of time the tourniquet is left in place. Extensive experience with operative tourniquet use has demonstrated that the incidence of injury is very low with tourniquet times of two hours or less; military experience has confirmed the safety of this two-hour limit in the field. Matter of fact they are now being used daily inside of operating rooms around the world.

 

[M. Sage]

Well, damn, I was going to post about the two-hour time period, but y'all beat me to it.

If anything, tourniquets are SAFER to use on gun shot victims in a civilian setting because timely response is practically guaranteed compared to a military situation.

As far as a blood-soaked vs dry bandages... it's platelets in the blood that cause it to clot. Keeping the wound dry shouldn't make it clot any faster, and it's pressure that's more important right off the bat anyway.

 

[Tuff]

Well, damn, I was going to post about the two-hour time period, but y'all beat me to it.

If anything, tourniquets are SAFER to use on gun shot victims in a civilian setting because timely response is practically guaranteed compared to a military situation.

As far as a blood-soaked vs dry bandages... it's platelets in the blood that cause it to clot. Keeping the wound dry shouldn't make it clot any faster, and it's pressure that's more important right off the bat anyway.

In honest training dictates to LEAVE the soaked bandage in place to promote clotting, to pull the gauze out of a wound will almost always break clots and cause it to bleed again....

Fill it up and apply pressure......

 

[txinvestigator]

In honest training dictates to LEAVE the soaked bandage in place to promote clotting, to pull the gauze out of a wound will almost always break clots and cause it to bleed again....

Fill it up and apply pressure......

Yep, that is the training I received last year.

 

[General Zod]

So here's a question. Let's say Psycho Pete has broken into my house and, while he was slinking around the living room with a drawn firearm, I got the drop on him and put two rounds in his chest.

Now, this dude was armed and out to hurt anyone he ran across. Aside from kicking his gun out of his reach, I'm not going to be enthusiastic about getting within arm's reach of him. What is my responsibility, legally, to render aid?

It's not a matter of "let him die" so much as "what's to keep him from drawing a hidden knife and sticking me while I'm trying to help him not bleed out". Now of course I'd request an ambulance, and I'd give him a towel to hold against the wound if he's alert, but beyond that...? Where does not putting myself at risk outweigh preventing the death of the guy I just did my best to kill in self-defense?

What side of this dilemma do you guys come down on? Particularly the law enforcement folks.

 

[txinvestigator]

Zod,

You have no legal obligation to render a person aid. None

 

[TexasRedneck]

As a practical matter, you further would show reasonable caution NOT to approach the perp. You have ended the immediate threat, but as you noted you don't know if he might still present one if approached. If you ARE ever in that type of situation, just remember to say just that if asked why you didn't do anything....

"Well, officer, I didn't know what threat he could present me up close, so I waited for trained professionals."

 

[General Zod]

I am, of course, hoping never to need this knowledge, but it's good to know.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

My understanding is you are only required to render aid if you are a medical professional trained in the life saving skills or if you are qualified at first aid training.

However if there is a legitimate threat to your own personal safety, you are allowed to wait for help.

 

[txinvestigator]

There is no legal obligation, even for a person trained. Perhaps an on duty first responder......

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Well, last time i head that was in the military so maybe that's why they said it-cause active duty are always on duty. The loophole around it was if you don't feel comfortable doing it, just don't let anyone know you're qualified.

 

[txinvestigator]

Active duty are not really on duty, in the sense of responding to things outside of the military.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Well, last time i head that was in the military so maybe that's why they said it-cause active duty are always on duty. The loophole around it was if you don't feel comfortable doing it, just don't let anyone know you're qualified.

But - they are "on duty" for MILITARY treatment - civilian needs don't apply, and are often told to avoid where possible.

 

[Younggun]

The only law I've heard of was to protect people who try to help from lawsuits.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Yea, I dunno guys. I just know that in four classes-one near LA, two in San Diego, and one in GA, I was instructed in my classes that as a person qualified in CPR, I was legally obligated to help if I ever came access someone in need. They REALLY pushed that in class.


Then, they always made comments about how you can't get in trouble for not helping if they don't know you're qualified.

Personally, I only took the classes so I could stay fresh on things in case someone got hurt in the shop, on the job site, or in case one of my kids I volunteered with ever got hurt. Its been a few years now so I should probably get back in a class lol

 

[TexasRedneck]

It's called a "Good Samaritan" law....designed to help protect those who attempt to help others from being sued for messing up if they're trying to help. As I previously stated, if you're bleeding out in my house because I shot you trying to break in.....hope the medics arrive quickly, because I am NOT gonna give you another chance to hurt me OR mine.

 

[txinvestigator]

Yea, I dunno guys. I just know that in four classes-one near LA, two in San Diego, and one in GA, I was instructed in my classes that as a person qualified in CPR, I was legally obligated to help if I ever came access someone in need. They REALLY pushed that in class.

Absolutely not true. I was a NSC and Texas Safety Association first aid and CPR Instructor, and received basic gunshot wound trauma training last year. But in the interest of fairness, I would concede if I can see such a law.

 

[M. Sage]

It's called a "Good Samaritan" law....designed to help protect those who attempt to help others from being sued for messing up if they're trying to help. As I previously stated, if you're bleeding out in my house because I shot you trying to break in.....hope the medics arrive quickly, because I am NOT gonna give you another chance to hurt me OR mine.

Yep.

There's a substantial and real risk involved in attempting to render aid in this situation. Sit back and wait for first responders. You have no obligation or reason to approach this person at substantial risk to yourself. If he bleeds out, he bleeds out. Shouldn't have kicked your door in.

 

[Glockster69]

Absolutely not true. I was a NSC and Texas Safety Association first aid and CPR Instructor, and received basic gunshot wound trauma training last year. But in the interest of fairness, I would concede if I can see such a law.

Are you saying the "Good Samaritan" law(s) do not exist or that you haven't found them?

 

[Ericstac]

Yea, I dunno guys. I just know that in four classes-one near LA, two in San Diego, and one in GA, I was instructed in my classes that as a person qualified in CPR, I was legally obligated to help if I ever came access someone in need. They REALLY pushed that in class.


Then, they always made comments about how you can't get in trouble for not helping if they don't know you're qualified.

Personally, I only took the classes so I could stay fresh on things in case someone got hurt in the shop, on the job site, or in case one of my kids I volunteered with ever got hurt. Its been a few years now so I should probably get back in a class lol

I believe what you are thinking of is if you stop and act at a scene then at that point you must follow through and not leave. It's been many years so I might have this a bit off but I believe that's how it goes.. Of course if you just continue on by without stopping to render aid or acknowledging at all you are fine.

Basically you can't be like hey everyone I am a paramedic, step back... Then leave..