What can we, as gun owners, advocate for to decrease gun violence in the Us

[Sam7sf]

Isn't that what the trans people are trying legalize? I'm not sure that has anything to do with drugs.

Nothing to see here just a normal parade.

 

[Axxe55]

You could do the same with every illegal drug ( designer drugs aside) until the same folks pushing for more control ( .gov Karens)decided which drugs could be the most easily taxed. Remember , alcohol was illegal for a while here as well.

For years, my thoughts were to make many illegal drugs legal, then control, regulate and tax them just as is currently done with tobacco and alcohol.

People are going to use them anyways. Why not take illegality of them out of the equation? If many of them were legal, I would have to assume some of the criminal activity associated with them would decrease as well. Much of organized criminals who deal drugs would have to find other sources of income. Plus being taxed, society gains some use from the drugs from the tax revenue.

Now here is where I get conflicted, and this comes from my personal experiences, and perspective. I don't use drugs and haven't participated in social use of drugs for at least forty some years now. I had been subject to random drug testing for a great number of years, and wasn't about to risk my well paying jobs over using drugs recreationally. It just wasn't worth it to me. Once I got into supervisory and management, I had to send people for random drug testing. I worked in field where safety was huge concern, and I had a zero tolerance of risking anyone's safety over someone using drugs. Even as supervisor, and a manager, I too was subject to drug testing as well.

Where this lead to is this. I got out of working in the corporate world and went back to working in smaller shops, pretty much doing almost the same job. Lots of these smaller shops were just not doing drug testing, even randomly. One of those smaller shops I worked at, I got injured on the job, by an idiot on a fork lift, where I got pinned between a shelf unit and the fork lift. Fractured my left leg and arm and punctured my left lung, Okay, accident happen right? Not an accident IMO. The idiot on the fork lift had a very bad habit of using drugs and alcohol recreationally, and everyone knew it, but kind of overlooked it. The owners of the business knew it. But he did them on his time. He was hungover and on the residual effects of the drugs when he ran over me with the fork lift. I spent two weeks in the hospital. I have numerous scars from that "accident" and a permanent limp in my left leg. I will live with pain from that "accident" until the day I die. I wake up with pain every day.

So from my personal perspective, that is why I have zero tolerance or sympathy for recreational drug users. I don't want them in our workplaces. I don't want them operating vehicles on public roadways. Frankly, I don't want them in society. Legalizing certain drugs IMO may create as many problems as they solve. But as a society, IF we are going to legalize certain drugs, tax them, regulate and control them, we need some sort of safeguards to protect society as a whole from the recreational drug user. Companies should still be able to hire and fire based on drug usage. LE should be able to arrest them for operating a vehicle on public roads under the influence of drugs as well.

Personally, I'm still not totally opposed to making certain drugs legal, but I do have some concerns based upon my personal experiences and from what I have seen with my own eyes over the years.

 

[Hoji]

For years, my thoughts were to make many illegal drugs legal, then control, regulate and tax them just as is currently done with tobacco and alcohol.

People are going to use them anyways. Why not take illegality of them out of the equation? If many of them were legal, I would have to assume some of the criminal activity associated with them would decrease as well. Much of organized criminals who deal drugs would have to find other sources of income. Plus being taxed, society gains some use from the drugs from the tax revenue.

Now here is where I get conflicted, and this comes from my personal experiences, and perspective. I don't use drugs and haven't participated in social use of drugs for at least forty some years now. I had been subject to random drug testing for a great number of years, and wasn't about to risk my well paying jobs over using drugs recreationally. It just wasn't worth it to me. Once I got into supervisory and management, I had to send people for random drug testing. I worked in field where safety was huge concern, and I had a zero tolerance of risking anyone's safety over someone using drugs. Even as supervisor, and a manager, I too was subject to drug testing as well.

Where this lead to is this. I got out of working in the corporate world and went back to working in smaller shops, pretty much doing almost the same job. Lots of these smaller shops were just not doing drug testing, even randomly. One of those smaller shops I worked at, I got injured on the job, by an idiot on a fork lift, where I got pinned between a shelf unit and the fork lift. Fractured my left leg and arm and punctured my left lung, Okay, accident happen right? Not an accident IMO. The idiot on the fork lift had a very bad habit of using drugs and alcohol recreationally, and everyone knew it, but kind of overlooked it. The owners of the business knew it. But he did them on his time. He was hungover and on the residual effects of the drugs when he ran over me with the fork lift. I spent two weeks in the hospital. I have numerous scars from that "accident" and a permanent limp in my left leg. I will live with pain from that "accident" until the day I die. I wake up with pain every day.

So from my personal perspective, that is why I have zero tolerance or sympathy for recreational drug users. I don't want them in our workplaces. I don't want them operating vehicles on public roadways. Frankly, I don't want them in society. Legalizing certain drugs IMO may create as many problems as they solve. But as a society, IF we are going to legalize certain drugs, tax them, regulate and control them, we need some sort of safeguards to protect society as a whole from the recreational drug user. Companies should still be able to hire and fire based on drug usage. LE should be able to arrest them for operating a vehicle on public roads under the influence of drugs as well.

Personally, I'm still not totally opposed to making certain drugs legal, but I do have some concerns based upon my personal experiences and from what I have seen with my own eyes over the years.

Sorry you got hammered by someone who came to work under the influence. Hungover is still drunk.
You can not control what other people are going to do. If legalized, I do not think you will see an increase in high at work cases as those people are already getting high at work. Or coming in drunk.
Drug laws are 100% about control and not public health. If it was about public health, tobacco would be illegal.

 

[Hoji]

While I agree with most of this I disagree allowing all drugs to be legal. If a drug causes a person to be naked, jerk off in the middle of the street, and try to eat someone’s face, haul em off or don’t arrest me fixing him with a 44 mag.

Hell, for some people that is one beer.

 

[easy rider]

For years, my thoughts were to make many illegal drugs legal, then control, regulate and tax them just as is currently done with tobacco and alcohol.

People are going to use them anyways. Why not take illegality of them out of the equation? If many of them were legal, I would have to assume some of the criminal activity associated with them would decrease as well. Much of organized criminals who deal drugs would have to find other sources of income. Plus being taxed, society gains some use from the drugs from the tax revenue.

Now here is where I get conflicted, and this comes from my personal experiences, and perspective. I don't use drugs and haven't participated in social use of drugs for at least forty some years now. I had been subject to random drug testing for a great number of years, and wasn't about to risk my well paying jobs over using drugs recreationally. It just wasn't worth it to me. Once I got into supervisory and management, I had to send people for random drug testing. I worked in field where safety was huge concern, and I had a zero tolerance of risking anyone's safety over someone using drugs. Even as supervisor, and a manager, I too was subject to drug testing as well.

Where this lead to is this. I got out of working in the corporate world and went back to working in smaller shops, pretty much doing almost the same job. Lots of these smaller shops were just not doing drug testing, even randomly. One of those smaller shops I worked at, I got injured on the job, by an idiot on a fork lift, where I got pinned between a shelf unit and the fork lift. Fractured my left leg and arm and punctured my left lung, Okay, accident happen right? Not an accident IMO. The idiot on the fork lift had a very bad habit of using drugs and alcohol recreationally, and everyone knew it, but kind of overlooked it. The owners of the business knew it. But he did them on his time. He was hungover and on the residual effects of the drugs when he ran over me with the fork lift. I spent two weeks in the hospital. I have numerous scars from that "accident" and a permanent limp in my left leg. I will live with pain from that "accident" until the day I die. I wake up with pain every day.

So from my personal perspective, that is why I have zero tolerance or sympathy for recreational drug users. I don't want them in our workplaces. I don't want them operating vehicles on public roadways. Frankly, I don't want them in society. Legalizing certain drugs IMO may create as many problems as they solve. But as a society, IF we are going to legalize certain drugs, tax them, regulate and control them, we need some sort of safeguards to protect society as a whole from the recreational drug user. Companies should still be able to hire and fire based on drug usage. LE should be able to arrest them for operating a vehicle on public roads under the influence of drugs as well.

Personally, I'm still not totally opposed to making certain drugs legal, but I do have some concerns based upon my personal experiences and from what I have seen with my own eyes over the years.

Look how well that's working in places like L.A., San Francisco, Portland and Seattle. I posted this when it came out a couple years ago, this is what happens when you legalize or don't enforce drugs:

 

[Axxe55]

Sorry you got hammered by someone who came to work under the influence. Hungover is still drunk.
You can not control what other people are going to do. If legalized, I do not think you will see an increase in high at work cases as those people are already getting high at work. Or coming in drunk.
Drug laws are 100% about control and not public health. If it was about public health, tobacco would be illegal.

I don't totally disagree with your viewpoint, and agree with you on most of it.

My thoughts are this in a nutshell. I don't care what a person does in private, and on their time. None of my business, or anyone else's business for that matter. But when your actions in private, endanger others when you are in public, then that is my business, and everyone else's business at that point.

I agree with you because of Prohibition during the 1930's. Didn't stop people from consuming alcohol in the least. It just went underground so to speak.

Hoji, I don't have all the answers, even for myself on this. As I said, I am conflicted in my thoughts on this. Before I was injured, I was pretty much of one thought about it, but afterwards, my perspective changed because of my injuries. I do agree about personal choice.

 

[A1Oni]

people should have the right to ruin their lives if they want to, I'm a firm believer that people should be able to buy AA guns at home depot and crack at 7/11, the drugs aren't the issue, its a socio-economic issue that drives people to drugs, you know how many people die from, alcohol or smoking or eating fatty foods? a **** ton, do I beleive that those things should be illegal or restricted? no. Decriminalizing drugs also has the effect of getting rid of cartel funding and allows people to buy whatever poison of their choice without it being cut with drywall or paint. the war on drugs is like the war on guns, it doesnt address the issues of society and only penalizes people in poorer areas and infringes on the rights of people, its like folks forgot what happened during prohibition.

 

[easy rider]

I don't totally disagree with your viewpoint, and agree with you on most of it.

My thoughts are this in a nutshell. I don't care what a person does in private, and on their time. None of my business, or anyone else's business for that matter. But when your actions in private, endanger others when you are in public, then that is my business, and everyone else's business at that point.

I agree with you because of Prohibition during the 1930's. Didn't stop people from consuming alcohol in the least. It just went underground so to speak.

Hoji, I don't have all the answers, even for myself on this. As I said, I am conflicted in my thoughts on this. Before I was injured, I was pretty much of one thought about it, but afterwards, my perspective changed because of my injuries. I do agree about personal choice.

The problem is, it becomes everyone's business. Here's another more recent video. KOMO is TV station in Seattle, so they're not on the outside looking in. This is the city I was born in, a city I used to love, a city I used to be proud to call my hometown. A city that when my children were young I would feel safe enough to walk with my young children.



Sorry, this one seems age restricted and will only allow watching on Youtube.

 

[Axxe55]

people should have the right to ruin their lives if they want to, I'm a firm believer that people should be able to buy AA guns at home depot and crack at 7/11, the drugs aren't the issue, its a socio-economic issue that drives people to drugs, you know how many people die from, alcohol or smoking or eating fatty foods? a **** ton, do I beleive that those things should be illegal or restricted? no. Decriminalizing drugs also has the effect of getting rid of cartel funding and allows people to buy whatever poison of their choice without it being cut with drywall or paint. the war on drugs is like the war on guns, it doesnt address the issues of society and only penalizes people in poorer areas and infringes on the rights of people, its like folks forgot what happened during prohibition.

You are exactly correct. People have the right to ruin their lives, and they do so whether it's by legal means, or illegal. They do it every day.

And not one law is going to ever change that fact. Not one law has changed it one bit either.

And I have said, what a person does in private, should be their choice and their business. It's when the bring into public what they do in private that is of concern to me and everyone.

Personally, if we remove all the illegalities of drugs, then we also need to have open season on dopeheads if they are in public, and become a danger to the public.

Would probably cure that prison over-crowding problem!

 

[Sam7sf]

Ok let’s make all drugs legal. Let’s go with the narrative let them destroy themselves. Let’s use booze as comparison.

A drunk driver hits the road and somehow survived a crash but kills a productive member of society.

A meth user can screw his life up too, in different ways, but like the drunk driver can effect others because he’s a loser.

I get where y’all are coming from and some of you have age and wisdom I don’t. Still...if someone is making a bad choice I don’t care about em. I don’t value them. They bring nothing productive to a community by doing a bunch of meth. We can have this conversation about live and let live all we want but at the end of the day most crackheads, despite what the law is, are up to no good. Look at California and how they no longer arrest for theft under a certain amount. Now stores get goods stolen way more often.

Also we make drugs legal who’s gonna hire him to do anything important? He starts his own business. Who’s gonna buy anything from him?

 

[Hoji]

Ok let’s make all drugs legal. Let’s go with the narrative let them destroy themselves. Let’s use booze as comparison.

A drunk driver hits the road and somehow survived a crash but kills a productive member of society.

A meth user can screw his life up too, in different ways, but like the drunk driver can effect others because he’s a loser.

I get where y’all are coming from and some of you have age and wisdom I don’t. Still...if someone is making a bad choice I don’t care about em. I don’t value them. They bring nothing productive to a community by doing a bunch of meth. We can have this conversation about live and let live all we want but at the end of the day most crackheads, despite what the law is, are up to no good. Look at California and how they no longer arrest for theft under a certain amount. Now stores get goods stolen way more often.

Also we make drugs legal who’s gonna hire him to do anything important? He starts his own business. Who’s gonna buy anything from him?

Replace “crackhead” with democrat. Then replace “democrat” with any politician.
The war on drugs is only about control and division.

 

[A1Oni]

Ok let’s make all drugs legal. Let’s go with the narrative let them destroy themselves. Let’s use booze as comparison.

A drunk driver hits the road and somehow survived a crash but kills a productive member of society.

A meth user can screw his life up too, in different ways, but like the drunk driver can effect others because he’s a loser.

I get where y’all are coming from and some of you have age and wisdom I don’t. Still...if someone is making a bad choice I don’t care about em. I don’t value them. They bring nothing productive to a community by doing a bunch of meth. We can have this conversation about live and let live all we want but at the end of the day most crackheads, despite what the law is, are up to no good. Look at California and how they no longer arrest for theft under a certain amount. Now stores get goods stolen way more often.

Also we make drugs legal who’s gonna hire him to do anything important? He starts his own business. Who’s gonna buy anything from him?

the main crux of my views and my opinions is that people should have the right to imbibe in what they please, I myself don't drink nor smoke nor partake in any drug besides caffeine and prescription meds but I feel people should be able to imbibe in whatever, you can still have drug tests for industrial jobs or any sort of career but if people wish to smoke dope all day id rather they have a legal outlet instead of giving money to the cartel or whatever DEA funded drug gang is in the news cycle, if people truly want help they will get help, but we also must remember that our experiences as individuals doesnt mean that is how the world works, as an old proverb goes: "One cannot judge the ocean by a glass of water."

and the prison system itself is broken, it only creates more criminals and it disproportionately affects poorer people of all colors and creeds because people in prison be it the pick pocket to the psycho murderer dont get the help they need in prisons, they might be bad people but they still have rights.

and a lot of drug legislation allows rich or well connected people like hunter biden get away with anything while someone selling dimebags to make a few bucks for rent and food gets thrown into the slammer for life.

 

[Sam7sf]

the main crux of my views and my opinions is that people should have the right to imbibe in what they please, I myself don't drink nor smoke nor partake in any drug besides caffeine and prescription meds but I feel people should be able to imbibe in whatever, you can still have drug tests for industrial jobs or any sort of career but if people wish to smoke dope all day id rather they have a legal outlet instead of giving money to the cartel or whatever DEA funded drug gang is in the news cycle, if people truly want help they will get help, but we also must remember that our experiences as individuals doesnt mean that is how the world works, as an old proverb goes: "One cannot judge the ocean by a glass of water."

and the prison system itself is broken, it only creates more criminals and it disproportionately affects poorer people of all colors and creeds because people in prison be it the pick pocket to the psycho murderer dont get the help they need in prisons, they might be bad people but they still have rights.

and a lot of drug legislation allows rich or well connected people like hunter biden get away with anything while someone selling dimebags to make a few bucks for rent and food gets thrown into the slammer for life.

I’ll agree with all that. I’m back and forth because when people destroy themselves it ultimately cost others time and money to clean that up. At times literally.

Politicians make criminals. Prisons are just filled with employees making a living by holding onto societies trash.

Like you I don’t use. Never have. Despite this I believe weed should not be regulated. Obvious from my previous posts how I feel about hard drugs but regulating weed is a joke. Just as much of a joke as liquor laws are. I could care less if a guys making shine in the woods. So what’s my problem then? Drugs like meth have changed people. It took a friend of mind. He was an army ranger. Someone I respected and loved as a friend. Even if what he was doing was legal it took him on the wrong path. I didn’t know until it was too late but now I know how it effects the brain.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I don't doubt your comment in the least. But tobacco is legal. I can go to just any store, in any city and buy a pack of cigarettes. People generally don't get high on smoking or dipping tobacco.

There is a social cost of tobacco use, as there is with "hard drugs".

I don't have a problem with any drugs being made legal *IF CONCURRENTLY* there were law changes to completely stop all social services offered by government and burglaries, robberies, thefts, which would be RAMPANT, were punishable as a capitol offense after one or two convictions as well as an expansion of "castle doctrine" to include at least the addition of closed businesses (to cover burglary).

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[cycleguy2300]

Hell, for some people that is one beer.

I don't even need as much as a beer to get naked...

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[Axxe55]

I don't even need as much as a beer to get naked...

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

Trust me when I say this, and with all due respect, WE didn't need to know that little tidbit of information!

 

[Hoji]

Trust me when I say this, and with all due respect, WE didn't need to know that little tidbit of information!

Well, since I ride with him occasionally , forewarned is forearmed and all that.

 

[Axxe55]

There is a social cost of tobacco use, as there is with "hard drugs".

I don't have a problem with any drugs being made legal *IF CONCURRENTLY* there were law changes to completely stop all social services offered by government and burglaries, robberies, thefts, which would be RAMPANT, were punishable as a capitol offense after one or two convictions as well as an expansion of "castle doctrine" to include at least the addition of closed businesses (to cover burglary).

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

I can agree with that. But as long as accountability goes along with it.

 

[easy rider]

You are exactly correct. People have the right to ruin their lives, and they do so whether it's by legal means, or illegal. They do it every day.

And not one law is going to ever change that fact. Not one law has changed it one bit either.

And I have said, what a person does in private, should be their choice and their business. It's when the bring into public what they do in private that is of concern to me and everyone.

Personally, if we remove all the illegalities of drugs, then we also need to have open season on dopeheads if they are in public, and become a danger to the public.

Would probably cure that prison over-crowding problem!

Bullshit! As a former councilor of alcohol and drug abuse, I've seen them first hand. Does jail rehabilitate everyone? No. There are many who've turned there lives around after jail. So you can't tell me that it doesn't work. The problem I see, is for many, they don't get the help they need while incarcerated. But if you turn your back on a problem, thinking it's their problem, let them destroy their own life, then while your back is turned they come up behind you and beat you looking for money to continue their addiction.

 

[Axxe55]

Well, since I ride with him occasionally , forewarned is forearmed and all that.

That's a fair point Hoji! Especially from your perspective that is probably very valuable information.

Cycleguy: "I'm going to ride commando today!"

Hoji: "I think I'm going to pass on riding today!"