What if?..

[Texan2]

If the officer asks to search the car, Just Say NO!!!

I personally carry nothing illegal and no officer is going to search my vehicle without a warrant.

As already stated...If probable cause to search is present he can search your vehicle with or without your permission.
A search warrant does not come into play.

Has anyone ever had to go through a secondary search at a Border Patrol checkpoint? They search hundreds of cars each day...
OMG where is their search warrant!!???

 

[TexasRedneck]

Has anyone ever had to go through a secondary search at a Border Patrol checkpoint? They search hundreds of cars each day...
OMG where is their search warrant!!???

Now....do NOT get me started on that. The checkpoints are supposed to be within a given distance of the border. Most aren't. That shouldn't be allowed, IMO. I'm all for controls, but they should be within the constraints of the law.

 

[London]

If a cop finds a gun in your car you didn't tell him about, he's probably not going to be happy about it even if it's legal. Decline the search if asked. If he doesn't ask and searches anyway he probably has PC or is doing a Terry search (or is messing up).

 

[London]

I personally carry nothing illegal and no officer is going to search my vehicle without a warrant.

A cop can perform a Terry search on you and your vehicle (all unlocked areas) without PC or even RAS.

 

[Texan2]

A cop can perform a Terry search on you and your vehicle (all unlocked areas) without PC or even RAS.

And getting out and locking your door behind you doesn't stop him from searching either.

All of these pieces of advice and ways to challange an officer by asking these straight from the textbook questions will typically get you nowhere and prolong your time spent on the side of the road.

If you are standing you may want to sit down for this news....

I'm going to tell you a little secret from the police world, but you have to promise not to spread it around to the general public....

<whispering> Cops don't care about you having a gun in your car. Most of Texas carries guns in their cars. If you were stopped for speeding or a tail light out, the gun in your car means nothing to him as long as you leave it alone while he is present.

Let the guy do his job and if you feel you were wronged or something was done illegally, file a complaint. The side of the road is not where you want to start with your list of percieved grievences.

 

[Texan2]

When I worked patrol, and I would stop someone and they told me they had a gun I had a standard response.

"You dont pull yours and I wont pull mine".

Guns in cars just arent a big deal.

 

[Texan2]

"You dont pull yours and I wont pull mine".

This line can also be used if ever you find yourself in jail or prison. But that is not the context in which I was using it.

 

[just jk]

as txcop has stated - if there isnt any observable PC - the likelihood of the officer to go "fishing" by asking for a consent search is highly unlikely

if you're an average joe pulled over for speeding, you're going to get your citation and be on your way

the few times i've been pulled over, i let the officer know i'm carrying.....and very little else is said

 

[matefrio]

I consider myself law abiding. Problem is I don't know all the laws I need to abide by. There could be, unintentionally I promise, in my car an item I had no idea were illegal or that could tie me to an active investigation unintentionally.

I will not give a police officer open access to my car. If he wants in it will not be because I agreed to have my car searched. He can use a warrant or reasonable suspicion or a Terry Search but I will have it on record I declined my permission when he asked to search my car.

I will respect the officer though. No reason for this to be personal. Besides we're all on camera. :-)

 

[just jk]

that declination and a buck will get you a cup of coffee

i'm a little rusty on my search and seizure law, but i'm not positive a Terry frisk extends to a car

 

[London]

as txcop has stated - if there isnt any observable PC - the likelihood of the officer to go "fishing" by asking for a consent search is highly unlikely

I've spoken to cops do it every time because it never hurts to ask. Plenty of people get arrested because they waive their rights.

 

[London]

that declination and a buck will get you a cup of coffee

i'm a little rusty on my search and seizure law, but i'm not positive a Terry frisk extends to a car

SCOTUS has ruled it does if it is unlocked. It is considered to be in the detainee's immediate grabbable area.

You are implying that declining a search is pointless. How so? If a cop has legal authority he's not going to ask in the first place. If he doesn't then he will ask and you may decline. If you decline the search and have no right to do so, oh well. Just as it never hurts to ask to search your car, it never hurts to state that you do not consent to any searches.

 

[just jk]

Plenty of people get arrested because they waive their rights.

i'm retired LEO......i could not disagree with this statement more....i'm trying, but i can't

 

[just jk]

SCOTUS has ruled it does if it is unlocked. It is considered to be in the detainee's immediate grabbable area.

You are implying that declining a search is pointless. How so? If a cop has legal authority he's not going to ask in the first place. If he doesn't then he will ask and you may decline.

you ask for a consent because it's easier to beat in a suppression hearing than a PC search

 

[London]

And getting out and locking your door behind you doesn't stop him from searching either.

That's interesting because it contradicts everything I've read on the matter. Not saying you are wrong- I'll have to do some more homework on it.

 

[just jk]

That's interesting because it contradicts everything I've read on the matter. Not saying you are wrong- I'll have to do some more homework on it.

the trunk is normally locked and if PC exists under certain circumstances, the search can extend to locked areas - so locking the door is but a mere temporary barrier........worst case scenario, they tow the car to the impound lot and search it under an "inventory"

 

[Texan2]

Intentionally stepping out of your car and locking the door behind you does not strip an officer of his ability to search that area (under Terry) of the car that you had immediate access to.
Typically when textbooks describe "locked areas" they are referring to trunks. The officer can search the passenger compartment despite the fact that you tried to quickly lok him out before he could get to it.

 

[Texan2]

Additionally if a motorist wants to try and show the officer how smart he is and constantly challenge the law, the officer can always arrest him for the traffic violation in most cases. Outside of speeding, seat belt and open container every other offense is an arrestable offense.

So theorhetically the officer can cuff you, tow your car (after an inventory) and take you to jail/magistrates office all for your broken license plate light.

I dont advocate this action, I am just saying it can and has been done and is perfectly legal.

 

[Rum Runner]

I think there is some confusion as to two different types of searches: 1) A mandatory Probable Cause search, and 2) A this guy/car looks a little shakey, so I think I will go fishing type of search.

#1 is unavoidable if the officer believes he has PC. If you believe he doesn't ask him what his probable cause is, STFU and let him do the search.
#2 is avoidable to my knowledge by exiting the vehicle and locking the door behind you. When the Officer asks if he can search your car, I'd respond with "I am sorry sir, but I do not give you permission to search my car. Please go ahead if you feel you have probable cause." If I am wrong, or this is bad advice, I am all ears.

Now I know some people including Officers are of the mindframe that if you don't have anything to hide, whats the harm? Could be lots. I will give a personal example.

When I was about 20, I bought a 1969 Mercury Cougar for $1000 with the intent of restoring it. I bought it in East Palo Alto, CA. I am fairly certain that I bought it from a gang member. In addition to other reasons, I believe there were bondo'd bullet holes in the passenger door and when I was walking away with the keys, the guy said "Hey hold up a minute, I think I left my 'pellet gun' in there." at which point he proceeded to pull a bolt action, center-fire rifle out of the trunk which made me very uncomfortable to say the least. I searched the car and found all kinds of crap including a used condom and spent shotgun cases under the rear seat. What if an Officer who is much more educated on hiding places found something else that was left behind/hidden in the car? What if it was on the way home and I had not had a chance to search the car yet?

The car I drive now was bought used. I have never thoroughly searched it because it does not have such a suspicious background. But what if there is something there I am unaware of? What if when my kids get older, they or a friend stash something illegal in my car w/o me knowing? There are a lot of "What ifs" that are not too far outside reasonable possibilities.

In my job we do everything we can to avoid opening cans of worms like that. If the Officer finds something under a PC search...what you gonna do? But why would I open the possibility if I didn't need to? And that is regardless of whether or not I think I have nothing to hide.

If the above does not work, what is my best option?

 

[London]

Additionally if a motorist wants to try and show the officer how smart he is and constantly challenge the law, the officer can always arrest him for the traffic violation in most cases. Outside of speeding, seat belt and open container every other offense is an arrestable offense.

So theorhetically the officer can cuff you, tow your car (after an inventory) and take you to jail/magistrates office all for your broken license plate light.

I dont advocate this action, I am just saying it can and has been done and is perfectly legal.

Yep. SC has ruled that arrests for misdemeanors are at the officer's discretion.

I still haven't found the fine line between appearing respectful and cooperative and not consenting to searches. Aside from not consenting I do everything I can to put the officer at ease and not piss him off. It is still a "Pick your poison" situation for me.

Aside from that, I do have a book which specifically says locked cars are locked containers and can't be Terry searched, so I guess I have some more homework to do.