What's the requirement to notify when carrying?

[Cliffh]

During a traffic stop, is a CHL holder legally required to notify the LEO that the holder's carrying?

I can't remember if this was changed recently, and need the answer sooner than I'll have the opportunity to research it.

 

[Code3GT]

Its still there, but there's no penalty for it. So short answer is no, you dont have to. I got stopped a few weeks ago and the officer said its a nice courtesy to notify.

 

[Cliffh]

Thanks. I figure to always inform the LEO as a basic courtesy.

The question came up while talking with my LEO neighbor. I mentioned that I thought the "have to notify" had changed, he said he believed we're still required to notify.

Do you know which section of the law covers this?

 

[majormadmax]

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. (Source)

As stated previously, HB2730 (Sept 2009) removed the possibility of suspension for failing to do so as was provide by §411.187.​

Cheers! M2​

 

[TexasRedneck]

Just remember one thing...ALL traffic stops are "high-stress", so the cop's already on edge. You've been stopped, reach for your wallet WITHOUT sayin' your a CHL, and your weapon is exposed.....when you turn around, you'll be:

A. Looking at the ass-end of a cop headed the other way
B. Looking at a smiling cop
C. Looking down the barrel of a cocked and locked weapon

 

[navyguy]

I think what is confusing this is the recent change that allows for non CHL holders to keep an at-the-ready hand gun in there vehicle, and have no requirement to announce they have one if stopped. At least that's how I read the deal.

 

[txinvestigator]

The non-CHL holder was passed in '07. The removing of the penalty if CHLers fail to notify was done last summer.

So, to be clear; You still are required by the Government Code to display your ID/DL and CHL if you are carrying and a Peace Officer or Magistrate demands that you ID yourself.

If you fail to comply, there is no penalty. Go figure.

 

[Cliffh]

Sounds as if my neighbor's correct, I'm still required to inform if carrying - but I can't be charged with anything if I don't inform. Could that have been made any more confusing???

Option C is one I really want to avoid, which is why I plan to always present my permission slip, even if not carrying. Who knows, it may even get me out of a ticket.

I found the following in HB2730:

SECTION 11.12. Sections 411.187(a) and (c), Government Code, are amended to read as follows:

(a) The department shall suspend a license under this section if the license holder:

(1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense, or of an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense, or of a felony under an information or indictment;

(2) fails to display a license as required by Section 411.205;

Don't mean to be dense but now I'm confused - again

 

[cuate]

Since I feel that I am an honorable person and assume that the LEO who may stop me is likewise, I think it is a courtesy toward him to let him know that I am a lawful pistol packer and am carrying. He does have the authority to ask for the weapon and the requirement to hand it back when the stop is over. If I acted ugly and was raising cain, that might be different....

Atittude is everything generally...Yes, Sir and No, Sir goes a long way to a peaceable traffic stop.

 

[txinvestigator]

Sounds as if my neighbor's correct, I'm still required to inform if carrying - but I can't be charged with anything if I don't inform. Could that have been made any more confusing???

Option C is one I really want to avoid, which is why I plan to always present my permission slip, even if not carrying. Who knows, it may even get me out of a ticket.

I found the following in HB2730:



Don't mean to be dense but now I'm confused - again

That section was repealed this past summer. Read further down to 12.A1. That section (2) was struck out.

here is a link to the law as it stands today;
GOVERNMENT CODE  CHAPTER 411. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS

The bills can be confusing, reading thru the additions and strikethrus. I usually look straight to the codes themselves, and start here;

Texas Constitution and Statutes - Home

 

[txinvestigator]

Since I feel that I am an honorable person and assume that the LEO who may stop me is likewise, I think it is a courtesy toward him to let him know that I am a lawful pistol packer and am carrying. He does have the authority to ask for the weapon and the requirement to hand it back when the stop is over. If I acted ugly and was raising cain, that might be different....

Atittude is everything generally...Yes, Sir and No, Sir goes a long way to a peaceable traffic stop.

A reasonable, rational train of thought. I agree.

 

[MR Redneck]

I dont see nothing wrong with telling a cop if you have a CC weapon on ya. If I were a cop I really wouldnt care one way or the other, but its just good judgment to let them know.
You guy's that like in the more populated areas probably dont have the ability of knowing most of the deputies or DPS guys in your area. With that understanding, they dont know you either. It seems to be a good Idea to me if you let them know right off the bat.
It would suck if a cop seen your gun before you let them know you had one on you.
Thats the beauty of open carry and most of the cops I know like the idea because they will be able to see it. Most of the time im around cops I'll have a 45 hanging out of my pocket.
I think open and clear is the better approach.

 

[Willy]

When they stop you, they will run your plates and then your DL befpre they aproach you. Telling them up front when they aproach you won't tell them anything they don't already know, and it will ease some of the tension. I will have my wallet out of my pocket before he aproaches so that I don't have that awkward moment of reaching behind me when he knows I most likely have a gun.

 

[MR Redneck]

I guess I dont have to tell em. Its pretty clear when there's a 12 gauge laying in the passengers seat between me and the dog.

 

[Cliffh]

Gentlemen,

Although I appreciate your participation, I didn't start this thread to find out what you'd do, or what you think someone else should do. I started it to get a specific answer to a specific question.

I've read every link provided so far, unfortunately I'm still not seeing where it's said that there's no penalty if the officer isn't informed. All the links have said that one must inform if carrying when asked for ID. I did find where the provision:

A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.

had been struck from HB2730.

Maybe I've been looking at this wrong. The legislation didn't/won't say that there's no punishment. Instead, if the punishment isn't specifically spelled out there can't be a punishment. Since it was left out, and wasn't inserted someplace else, then they can't do anything. I find it hard to believe that any legislator would actually change/remove a law/provision that would restrict/punish the plebes.

 

[Bithabus]

HB 2730 is irrelevant, all that matters is the code. There used to be a punishment, and it was removed last session as part of HB 2730. Remember it wasn't illegal to fail to show your CHL before, but DPS could suspend your license, and now they can't.

Sec. 411.187. SUSPENSION OF LICENSE. (a) The department shall suspend a license under this section if the license holder:
(1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense, or of an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense, or of a felony under an information or indictment;
(2) fails to notify the department of a change of address, name, or status as required by Section 411.181;
(3) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of this subchapter of a different category than the license holder is licensed to carry;
(4) fails to return a previously issued license after a license is modified as required by Section 411.184(d);
(5) commits an act of family violence and is the subject of an active protective order rendered under Title 4, Family Code; or
(6) is arrested for an offense involving family violence or an offense under Section 42.072, Penal Code, and is the subject of an order for emergency protection issued under Article 17.292, Code of Criminal Procedure.

I find it hard to believe that any legislator would actually change/remove a law/provision that would restrict/punish the plebes.

Happens every session. For example, criminal empowerment zones have been shrinking.

 

[txinvestigator]

Gentlemen,

Although I appreciate your participation, I didn't start this thread to find out what you'd do, or what you think someone else should do. I started it to get a specific answer to a specific question.

I've read every link provided so far, unfortunately I'm still not seeing where it's said that there's no penalty if the officer isn't informed. All the links have said that one must inform if carrying when asked for ID. I did find where the provision:
had been struck from HB2730.

Maybe I've been looking at this wrong. The legislation didn't/won't say that there's no punishment. Instead, if the punishment isn't specifically spelled out there can't be a punishment. Since it was left out, and wasn't inserted someplace else, then they can't do anything. I find it hard to believe that any legislator would actually change/remove a law/provision that would restrict/punish the plebes.

I understand your confusion. It is odd they would do that, but it was done by the sunset commission.

Look carefully and read the Bill analysis for this Bill. These were sweeping changes in DPS. Since non-CHLers can now car carry and do not have to notify LE, there was a disparity for CHLers. The sunset commission changed the part of the law that DPS regulated.

Before, a magistrate could never suspend your license for failure to display. The GC specifically gave that authority to DPS. Since GC411.187 address actions by DPS, that is what the sunset commission could effect. That is why the penalty was removed and not the requirement. The commission had no authority to change 411.205.

Before, if you failed to display there was no immediate action the officer would take. He could submit an affidavit to DPS and DPS could suspend for 90 days. Now, if you fail to display there is no recourse.

I hope this helps.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Thanks, TXI - that is the part that confuses a lot of folks:

"Hey, I'm SUPPOSED to do it....if I speed I get a ticket - but if I don't tell, they can't do anything?!??"

Purty much....<G>

 

[Cliffh]

Thank you for the well written explanation Txinvestigator. Your explanation makes the situation more understandable - even if the situation itself really doesn't make much sense.

And thanks to eveyone else too.

Think I'll print this thread to have the relevant sections of the law handy.

 

[Sid]

I'm normally all for privacy, but this is one of those "choose your battle" cases where I would state to the approaching LEO that I am a CHL holder and have my CC with me. My CHL instructor told us of a young man who held a CHL but didn't have his CC with him during a stop, so didn't feel the need to inform or show the officer of his CHL. The LEO already knew through the dispatch computer that he's a CHL holder. Well, the situation escalated. In fact, this is probably the case that got the "no punishment" amendment added for failing to show your CHL.

When they stop you, they will run your plates and then your DL befpre they aproach you. Telling them up front when they aproach you won't tell them anything they don't already know, and it will ease some of the tension. I will have my wallet out of my pocket before he aproaches so that I don't have that awkward moment of reaching behind me when he knows I most likely have a gun.

During my CHL class, this is pretty much what the instructor said to us. When they run your plates through the computer, and its registered under your name, it'll show you are a CHL holder.

However, if you do get pulled over, I highly advise against reaching around behind you, behind the seat, under the seat, glove compartment, etc.

The LEO can see and possibly assess these movements as suspicious and handle your situation strictly.

Best thing to do is no sudden movements, turn off engine, roll down all windows, turn on dome lights if dark and keep hands on the steering wheel. When he asks for license and registration, calmly state the location of each and that you're reaching for them now.

I've personally been thanked by AustinPD officer for doing the above when I was pulled over for speeding (new route and didn't see the speed limit sign). Didn't get out of the ticket, but he docked it down to just 6mph over.