Which chronograph to buy?

[Vaquero]

Lots of options. Too many really.
Not really looking for a muzzle mount as I want to get downrange readings also.
Typical west Texas weather conditions will apply.
Meaning dust and wind for the most part.

 

[Younggun]

I don't remember what mine is, but I like it. Pro chrono something or the other.

Was less the $100 at midway.

 

[Brains]

Yep, same one I got - the 100 dollar ProChrono from Midway. Works great, and since it already has the 1/4"-20 threaded socket on the bottom, I mounted it on a cheap tripod for versatility.

 

[baboon]

Oelher Proof 35 Chronograph made in Texas!
Oehler Research Inc.

 

[LOCKHART]

Oehler is the Cadillac of chronos. I have owned one or other models of Oehler's
chronos since 1975. Dr. Oehler told me that the farther you can space the sky
screens apart, within reason of course, the more accurate they are. I have mine
on piece of conduit, spaced 5 feet apart, the actual chrono unit is back where I'm
shooting from, so only danger is hitting one of the screens by accident. That wont
happen if you follow his set-up instructions.

 

[Vaquero]

Pro chrono has a standard 89.99 model and a digital 99.99 model.

I guess 10 bucks ain't much, but I can't see me hauling computers or printers to the range.
Any feedback on the digital model advantages?

 

[Brains]

I got the digital, it's about as simple as you can get. Set it up, shoot through it, read the number on the display. It has the option to hook up printers and all that, but I too ain't interested in hauling any of that to the range. I got the digital in case I wanted to download the numbers once I got home (since it remembers your shot strings), but I've yet to actually do that

 

[Ready.Fire.Aim]

I have a pro chrono. Accidentally shot it once with a .300 Blackout load.

I sent it back to them in Illinois and they repaired it for a few bucks.

When is the last time you bought electronics made in the USA that could be repaired?

 

[Vaquero]

I have a pro chrono. Accidentally shot it once with a .300 Blackout load.

I sent it back to them in Illinois and they repaired it for a few bucks.

When is the last time you bought electronics made in the USA that could be repaired?

Good enough for me.
Thanks guys.

 

[benenglish]

Oelher Proof 35 Chronograph made in Texas!
Oehler Research Inc.

Oehler is the Cadillac of chronos.

Quoted for truth. I have the 35P. I think you've used it at Hicksville, right? It's fantastic.

It's not perfect, though.

• The analog readout (i.e., it prints on paper) has advantages and disadvantages. Assuming you can keep track of what you're doing and reset it before each test group, it gives a barebones summary of a test string, with numbers for high, low, spread, average, and standard deviation. (That's about all anyone ever uses, IME.) However, it requires you to remember to keep an extra paper roll handy. It's also a surprisingly heavy, bulky thing that's part of an already surprisingly bulky collections of many, many bits and pieces.
• It's a pain to set up until you've done it a few times and even then it's not simpleton-easy...which is what I would prefer. Seriously, it requires a little manual dexterity to set up. If you're clumsy like me, you get it half-way set up, bump into one of the stands, and when it falls over parts get twisted and bent. Been there; done that.
• The computer interface is non-existent.
• Given the multitude of parts and pieces, Oehler would obviously want to ship it in a properly fitted, quality case, right? Not a chance. It ships in a truly cheap POS case that makes me curse every time I have to use it.
• And it shares another disadvantage (that I'll get to in a minute) with every other chrono on the market.

Works great, and since it already has the 1/4"-20 threaded socket on the bottom, I mounted it on a cheap tripod for versatility.

All the $100 (or less) chronos with a tripod socket, to my way of thinking, are equivalent. I've had a couple.

• You put them downrange, try not to shoot them, and write down the numbers as they display on the front of the machine. Simple.
• If you want to run calculations on number sets, you do it at home or with a calculator at the range. Easy.
• Some even fold small enough to fit into a pistol range bag. Convenient.

...I can't see me hauling computers or printers to the range.

Me neither, however sometimes I wonder about the same thing as you, to wit:

Any feedback on the digital model advantages?

If you want to be serious about all this, then I suppose it's inevitable that you'll eventually want to dump data sets into computer programs and work out all sorts of tables of numbers that communicate something you need to know. The models with some sort of computer interface are needed to do that.

It sounds to me like you intend to get serious since you say...

Not really looking for a muzzle mount as I want to get downrange readings also.

...which puts me in a bit of a quandry.

If you want downrange readings, they're only really useful if you also know muzzle velocity. Conditions change, though, and you introduce a host of errors into your calculations if you measure muzzle velocity then move the chrono downrange and, some time later, measure downrange velocity. Those errors may not be big, may be ignorable, but once you know they're there, they tend to prey on the mind.

You could get two cheap chronos and run one at the muzzle and one downrange, simultaneously. I've seen that done. However, that means you have to be absolutely sure of the relative accuracy of the two units. That means you need to burn a lot of ammo shooting over the two of them, set up sequentially nose-to-tail, to be confident that they are both give perfectly equal results OR they are perfectly consistent in their differences. And if they're not? I guess you just keep buying them until you find two units that you can trust.

Oehler actually says in the manual for the M35P:

To measure ballistic coefficients, use one M35P at the muzzle and a second one downrange.

At $595 per unit, though, I doubt many people do that. Nevertheless, I think the manual tacitly reinforces my point - downrange velocities aren't maximally useful unless you also get a muzzle velocity on the same shot. It takes only a relatively small difference in reading variance to give an inaccurate measure of ballistic coefficient. If the tolerances stack weird, you can get some crazy results.

For example, suppose you get two chronos that are accurate to plus or minus 50 fps. (That's probably a bit of a large number but for a cheap chrono it's within the realm of possibility.) Suppose you're shooting a .308 Win. with a 175 SMK over them at the muzzle and at 100 yards. You expect a muzzle velocity of ~2650fps and, if most online calculators are to be believed, the velocity at 100 should be ~2470.

On the first shot,

• The close chrono reads the shot within tolerances but at the high end of the range. It reads 2700 fps.
• The far chrono reads the shot within tolerance but at the low end of the range. It reads 2420 fps.

On the second shot,

• The close chrono reads the shot within tolerances but at the low end, reading 2600 fps.
• The far chrono reads the shot within tolerance but at the high end, reading 2520 fps.

Now, we run back to the JBM calculators, pull up the BC calculator, specify a G7 drag function, and plug in the numbers. The calculated ballistic coefficients?

• The first shot is 0.053.
• The second shot is 0.187.

With the more common G1 drag function -

• The first shot is 0.107.
• The second shot is 0.373.

To my mind, this is an unacceptable level of variance. It can be brought way down by shooting far more than 2 shots and averaging results, obviously, but that's more work and, frankly, it's up to you to decide how far down that rabbit hole you want to dive. It's possible to wear out barrels before you do enough testing to be confident in anything, if you're the right personality type.

If only there were a way to use the same chrono both downrange and at the muzzle, right? That would fix all these problems.

The archery guys have had radar-based chronos for a while and seem to love them. One that looks pretty good to me is about to come on the market for use with firearms. It will take up to five readings on the same shot, from muzzle to as much as 130 yards. For the pistol shooting I do, typically out to 200 meters, thats enough. Also, because it's radar, it's simple to set up, can't get shot since it's behind the firing line, and has a host of other advantages. If I want to get really deep into computer analysis, it records an entire day of testing on an SD card that I can bring home, plug in, and play with the data till my eyes cross.

In fact, it sounds too good to be true. If you dig deep enough into the specs, it clearly has limitations. I'm going to find out.

I've been corresponding with the manufacturer for ~2 years and, after many delays, it looks like I'll finally be getting one in April, too late for Hicksville. I'll bring my M35P to that meet and you can shoot over that. However, I intend to fully and exhaustively test my new chrono asap after I get it, running it in serial with the Oehler.

I will definitely post the results.

Typical west Texas weather conditions will apply. Meaning dust and wind for the most part.

Testing under bad conditions is part of the game plan.

My advice?

• Now is not the time to buy a new premium chronograph. Wait till summer when the new unit is out and there should be lots of test reports popping up on youtube and elsewhere.
• If you have no need for a premium unit, go cheap and bypass all the options since you'll probably just wind up writing numbers down on a pad, anyway.
• If you need it now, want to go cheap, and want downrange readings, too, buy two cheap units and test the units extensively before you use them to test loads.
• If you will ever need longer-range downrange readings, at 200 yards and further, buy two, test, etc., as in the previous bullet. There's no need to wait since the upcoming radar unit doesn't work at such distances.

If there are any other units like this in the works, folks, please post what you know. I'd love to have more options. But for now and for the curious: LabRadar - My Personal Radar

 

[Vaquero]

Dammit Ben!

Lol

 

[Younggun]

I've not had issues with mine caused by wind or dust. I have learned that certain times of day can be troublesome.

Anytime the sun is relatively overhead is good. Morning/evening become problematic. Also, have to watch for shadows of tree limbs over the photocell things, especially if the wind has them waving around.

5 feet out is usually far enough to avoid muzzle blast errors, but may need 10 for a dirty powder, or something with a crazy muzzle flash like the 22TCM.

Shooting at 100 yards can be scary, also 200 and 300, lol. I don't think I would be comfortable doing that with a high end unit. Just me though.

Mine has worked for everything from .17 to shotguns. Airsoft too. I did have trouble with the .17 at 200 yards but I was guessing holdover and being very cautious. Think I was at the edge of its reading area which was made worse due to the small round.

I've had a ton of fun shooting over the chony. I kinda feel out over the muzzle velocity numbers, even if I don't do anything with them.


Also, I like the lithium 9v batteries. Had no problems with leaking so I don't worry about taking them out. It also holds and extra in case it dies at the range. I use the on board memory and write down the data when I get home. Calculates high, low, ave, ES, and SD.

I pack mine around in the cardboard box it comes in, works pretty well. Setup involves 4 metal rods, 2 plastic diffusers, and a 20 year old cheapo camera tripod. Takes a couple of minutes. Although sometimes lining it up with the target can take some back and forth depending circumstances.

 

[shooterfpga]

The labradars should be out soon but theyre also more expensive. Personally id go with the caldwell chrono. It plugs right into your phone to directly store info which can then be exported to a computer. Downside is without the free app from caldwell it doesnt do strings like other chronos but last shot only. So if you dont plan to have it sit downrange past 15ft youre good.

 

[benenglish]

Dammit Ben!

Lol

Hey, you asked good questions. I couldn't resist.

 

[57K]

Pro chrono has a standard 89.99 model and a digital 99.99 model.

I guess 10 bucks ain't much, but I can't see me hauling computers or printers to the range.
Any feedback on the digital model advantages?

Vaquero, the Pro Chrono is the model that costs $10 more and it's definitely worth the difference. I can also vouch for Competition Electronics CS. Definitely get a chrono that gives you extreme spread and standard deviation.

I would also recommend going to Midway and check out the new Caldwell chrono. It's probably the best value in chronos today and can be bought with or without their tripod. Because it's the most recent, it benefits from newer processor technology where it's rating for accuracy is impressive. Caldwell has been around a long time making a number of shooting related products like the Lead-Sleds in case you're unfamiliar with them.

 

[benenglish]

The labradars should be out soon but theyre also more expensive.

The labradar will have a suggested retail of $559.95. The Oehler 35P is $595.00. So I'd call the labradar the cheaper option among premium chronographs.

The cheap chronos all cost around $100.

In the $200+ range there are a couple of units from PACT and CED but I don't like those. I'm willing to pay for the proof channel (extra accuracy) and replaceable parts (if I shoot them) of the Oehler 35P. Or I'm willing to buy something so cheap that if I shoot it, I won't cry. Anything in between seems to me to be neither fish nor fowl.

 

[Wiliamr]

I have a ShootinChrony. Works, isnt fancy, Next one I buy will probably be about the same. So far I havent shot it. I do use a laser pointer to make sure I am lined up to not hit it.

 

[benenglish]

I would also recommend going to Midway and check out the new Caldwell chrono.

This one? Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph

That's a good unit and it's on sale for $70. That makes it an obvious choice.

And it's out of stock.

 

[shooterfpga]

This one? Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph

That's a good unit and it's on sale for $70. That makes it an obvious choice.

And it's out of stock.

Backorders ok. Its been out of stock the same day it went on sale. Dont bother with the 140 kit unless you have weights designed to hold the tripod other than the S hook ie: the ones that strap around the legs.

 

[benenglish]

Backorders ok.

I never put things on backorder so I don't know: do they honor the sale price when they get in stock and fill the order? If they do, I'll probably order one of those, myself.