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Which stance for the female form?

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  • Pony

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    I took my wife to the range to shoot the present I bought her, a 9 mm Springfield XD. I have always been taught the Weaver stance, and it works very well for me.
    I am going over the basics with the wife, including a good stance.
    Jack Weaver was obviously a guy, and his stance works well for guys. Is there any school of thought on a stance for the ladies? Is it just a modified Weaver stance, or has anyone any info on something specifically for accommodating the different body shapes?

    The XD was a great choice (she picked it), she says it feels comfortable, recoil is not excessive, and she doesn't have to worry about a safety. She fired a .22 when she was a young girl, but hasn't really shot that much at all since. She was getting consistent 3 inch grouping at 10 yd - on her first visit. She said it was the gun, I'm sure its my teaching skills :rolleyes: :p
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    juwaba98

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    I'm curious as well, I went with the mod weaver for my wife (who coincidently also picked out a 4" XD9 bi-tone though because it's prettier:rolleyes:) and it works but she doesn't look comfortable. I've benn trying to find something or someone to help but to no avail so far. Hopefully somebody around here can help both of us.

    Oh and tell her "good shootin'" for me will ya.
     

    juwaba98

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    My wife is interested in target shooting for certain right now, but she is in it for real and will soon be needing to know defensive as well because she fully intends to get her permit and carry. Not sure about Pony's wife.
     

    txinvestigator

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    We teach, as do the instructors at schools that I have attended, the combat stance. It is basically the same stance as a boxer would use. Feet about shoulder width apart, strong side leg back in a balanced position, and both arms out in front with the shoulders thrust forward.

    combat.jpg
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Stance and grip don't matter for making accurate hits. Stance and grip start to matter when doing so at speed, and depending on the situation. When shooting at speed, such as in a self defense situation or some types of competitions (IPSC, IDPA, etc), the thumbs forward grip is superior to Weaver and any of the other typical grip styles out there. The reason is it allows a full 360degree hold on the grip, and because of the position of your arms and hands it allows increased control of muzzle flip and can aid in more consistently bringing the gun back on target. Here's a good article on this grip style:

    http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/index.html

    Like I said though, grip and stance really don't matter. If she squeezes the trigger properly and has a proper front sight focus, the bullets will hit at point of aim every time. I would have her try different grips and see what feels most comfortable. As far as competition and target shooting go, there is a reason the thumbs forward grip is used by pretty much all serious/top level shooters these days.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Stance and grip don't matter for making accurate hits..

    I beg to differ. Especiallay for new shooters, both are inmportant. Without a proper grip, malfunctions are more possible. A proper stance will support you.

    It IS true that sight alignment and trigger control are the most important fundamentals, but to ignore stance and grip is not wise.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    I beg to differ. Especiallay for new shooters, both are inmportant. Without a proper grip, malfunctions are more possible. A proper stance will support you.

    It IS true that sight alignment and trigger control are the most important fundamentals, but to ignore stance and grip is not wise.

    All I'm saying is that for pure accuracy, the ONLY thing that matters is sight picture and trigger control. People get way to caught up in stance, grip, etc having their feet in a very exact position, gripping in just the right manner, pushing/pulling with both hands, finger on the trigger guard, finger not on the trigger guard, thumb over thumb, no thumb over thumb......... People get way too caught up in that stuff thinking it's going to have an effect on accuracy. It can when shooting at speed but, the only thing that affects accuracy is sight alignment and trigger control. Especially with people new to firearms, I think those 2 basic fundamentals really need to be stressed over things like grip, stance, etc.

    People think that if you He-Man death grip a gun that accuracy will suffer horribly. Some people even think that if you don't have your feet exactly shoulder width apart, one foot very slightly in front of the other, that accuracy will suffer. Some people think you need to apply very specific differing force with each hand on the grip (60/40 for example). None of that really matters. Just get a good solid hold on the gun, focus on the front sight properly, and properly manipulate the trigger and that's all that matters for most people's purposes. It helped me immensely watching James Yeager's Shooting Missology dvd. I mean I've paid attention to focusing on the front sight in the past and I've paid attention and done drills to focus on proper trigger control. Though I was simply "trying" waaaaaaay to hard and focusing entirely too much on grip while still not 100% pulling the trigger properly, not quite focusing on the front sight how I should have, etc. If this makes any sense, after watching that video and seeing things put into perspective, I'm shooting significantly better and it is significantly easier doing so since I already have a relatively solid grip and I'm only focusing on 2 things as opposed to maybe 10.

    BTW, I usually take a strong "combat" stance like you pictured as well. :)
     

    Pony

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    Thanks for the input. Primarily it is for defense, however I am hoping she gains an interest in target, or IPSC, or IDPA . I have shot both IPSC and IDPA (usually the same 'course' in both styles) at an amateur level in the past and hope to take it up again once I get back to Texas (I start the drive out on Friday!!! BTW). I'll have 4 cats and a dog in the pickup with me - hmmmm, I'll need a stiff one when I reach Texas. The wife follows in 10 days with the last of our dogs.

    My wife was shooting in her own variation of the combat stance you posted. I didn't want to make her uncomfortable by making her stand in what I had been told was the 'correct' stance, so we ended up with a modified Weaver.

    One question about the combat stance you posted (and thanks for the post), doesn't that potentially present a larger target?

    (juwaba98, my wife's ego is big enough without telling her good shootin' ;))
     

    txinvestigator

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    One question about the combat stance you posted (and thanks for the post), doesn't that potentially present a larger target?

    (juwaba98, my wife's ego is big enough without telling her good shootin' ;))


    Yes. However, it is a natural stance, and one that is stable, allows you to move (which not using a stance and standing with your feet together or in-line can prohibit you from doing) and allows balance.

    Clearly you can shoot while sitting, from you behind, on your side, etc., but when up on your feet it is good to learn the muscle memory. New shooters need to learn ALL of the fundamentals. Heck, I have been shooting for over 30 years, attend several schools a year and I teach firearms training with a group of seasoned, experienced under fire professionals. Yet we work still on the basics. Call us silly.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    The thing about the combat stance shown previously is it is a very strong and natural stance. The whole bladed aspect of the Weaver is over-played in my opinion. There is maybe a few degrees difference in stance from the combat stance. On an unarmored individual that is being shot at anyways, that's not going to make much difference, and you should be moving anyways as opposed to standing still. ;)
     

    htxred

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    One question about the combat stance you posted (and thanks for the post), doesn't that potentially present a larger target?
    if or when your wife gets more serious about shooting and decides what stance she likes better, a few tactical or defensive classes that goes over "getting off the x" will help argue the whole "presenting a larger target"..

    if in full tactical gear, you ahve more protection covering up your chest ten you do your side/rib cage.

    and as stated before, weaver stance limits your range of motion.
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    If she's practicing for defensive purposes, I'd say she needs to learn both. I'm partial to the tactical or isosceles, simply because it's easy to learn, it's very strong and stable, and it's very consistent. However, if she does ANY tactical training at all, she'll need to know how to transition between tactical and Weaver, and various combinations in between.

    I disagree that stance and grip have no bearing on accuracy. While stance isn't so important, grip is. A poor grip can cause a shooter to pull to the right or left, or can cause malfunctions by inhibiting the action of the semi-automatic. Grip and stance certain play a larger role in subsequent shots, rather than that first shot, however.
     

    idleprocess

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    I use a variant on the thumbs-forward grip that seems to work for me.

    I tried my luck with the isosceles stance the other day vs my usual pseudo-weaver stance and couldn't hit jack. I suppose I'm accustomed to absorbing recoil along the strong arm, inline with the gun.
     

    DarkRook

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    HK, I found that video's very interesting. Thanks for posting them. I shoot target type and for speed. I have not taken any classes as of yet other then the mil training. For pistols I have always used the left hand finger on the front of the trigger gaurd and thumb forword grip to reduce the recoil flip. I'm going to try out what was shown in the first video next time I go to shoot with my HK45 and a 9mm.

    I found all the other info helpful as well, and most I new.

    Thanx again.:cool:
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    I should clarify what I meant by grip doesn't matter, as I tend to type novels and take forever to get my point across. All I meant was that grip isn't really that important from a purely mechanical standpoint of hitting exactly on POA. That's technically speaking. All I mean by that is that I think people get a little too caught up in what type of grip they are using as opposed to watching their trigger control and sights properly. Having a good solid grip is definitely a wise idea, and I wouldn't have it any other way. For any kind of practical purposes like self defense or competition shooting, grip definitely is an important factor and can have serious effects on speed, follow up, etc. I think I should probably spend more time taking classes as opposed to talking though. lol
     

    idleprocess

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    All I meant was that grip isn't really that important from a purely mechanical standpoint of hitting exactly on POA.

    Right. If you can't maintain a certain amount of stability, muzzle flip is going to be uncontrollable, and the frame won't be sufficiently stationary for a pistol to cycle.

    I do find it interesting that single-action revolvers traditionally have simple solution to this problem. The shape of the handle encourages the weapon to tilt up in a consistent fashion to allow for convenient recocking.
     

    ReVrEnD_0341

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    I know I am alittle late on this. Busy schedule and all. Your wife's natural point of aim is going to dictate the way her stance is more than anything. No two people's stance are going to be the same, ever, at any time. As long as she has a propper grip, sight picture, sight alignment, and uses a slow steady squeeze, she can support herself as she pleases. A stance/ position need not be comfortable, nor look correct. If it works is all that matters.
     

    Texas1911

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    Right. If you can't maintain a certain amount of stability, muzzle flip is going to be uncontrollable, and the frame won't be sufficiently stationary for a pistol to cycle.

    At the same time you have to remember that you don't necessarily have time or the space to setup your "battle stance" in a gun fight. You should know how to shoot a gun running, walking, jumping, laying down, reading a book, etc. If it's in a John Woo movie you need to be able to do it.

    Joking aside, proper stance is a luxury we get at the range. It would be best to train to utilize all methodologies.
     
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