With 2ndA supporters like this, who needs the ATF?

[Axxe55]

To be honest, I wasn't in agreement at one time. Took many years and many arguments.

Same here. In all honesty, until the laws are changed, and those laws of felon being in possession of a firearm are pretty well known, a felon has no right to be in possession of a firearm.

I am not opposed to the laws being changed, just on the basis of what is Constitutional in regards to gun rights.

One of the convincing arguments that swayed my opinions on this was, as you mentioned, if they are deemed too dangerous to be allowed to possess a firearm, should they be released back into society in the first place? My answer to that is no. But if they have served their time successfully, in completing their sentence, their rights, each and every one of them should be restored intact, including their right to possess a firearm.

 

[Sam7sf]

The other facts to consider:
Recidivism among violent offenders is 63.8% AND those are just the ones caught again and convicted again! So I stand by my decision to vote to keep firearms away from convicted violent offenders. I would agree to the 7 yr no vote no gun no large knife rule for offenders over 40 years old ... the recidivism rate among younger offenders is much higher than for the over 40 group. Keep them locked up and/or away from legally possessing deadly weapons until over 40.
Parole violators with weapons go straight to jail PERIOD DOT!

The problem with this is you’re playing god. What of the people who fall under a small percentage that aren’t in your repeat offenders rate that do fall under the example I gave? You’re logic is the same as “I suppose the second amendment but”. My son could be a victim in a school shooting and I would still vote and voice against gun control. Gun control is an illusion; a bandaid. It doesn’t fix anything.

 

[Sam7sf]

Gun control sure does help.

 

[Axxe55]

The problem with this is you’re playing god. What of the people who fall under a small percentage that aren’t in your repeat offenders rate that do fall under the example I gave? You’re logic is the same as “I suppose the second amendment but”. My son could be a victim in a school shooting and I would still vote and voice against gun control. Gun control is an illusion; a bandaid. It doesn’t fix anything.

I have heard more than a few, the survivors, or the family of victims of killing spree voice opposition to gun control laws. Several have said, "If we didn't have so many gun control laws, maybe we could defend ourselves against violent killers." Or something very similar.

There has never been a gun law passed, or that will be ever passed, that will stop killers or criminals from killing or committing criminal acts. Anyone that thinks that, is either naive, or delusional.

 

[V-Tach]

Interesting perspective on both sides...........one position (Felons) I have not really thought about.....

Put emotions aside.............

What is left?

 

[Sam7sf]

Interesting perspective on both sides...........one position (Felons) I have not really thought about.....

Put emotions aside.............

What is left?

Debate doesn’t change much. Might actually get deeper.

 

[Sam7sf]

one thing humans love is control. It doesn’t matter who it is. Always gonna have someone who thinks someone else shouldn’t have something and that view gets put on a wide group.

 

[Axxe55]

one thing humans love is control. It doesn’t matter who it is. Always gonna have someone who thinks someone else shouldn’t have something and that view gets put on a wide group.

That is just part of human nature. It has existed since the dawn of time. It will continue long after we are long gone from this earth.

 

[easy rider]

How much liberty in the name of safety are you willing to part with, is my reasoning. You want total safety? I heard isolation in prison works.

 

[Sam7sf]

I also look at it like this: how much money gets wasted on gun control? Rather than bitching about who has a gun, why can’t we encourage programs to rehabilitate, get folks back to work, some actual helpful resources so people aren’t shitty? Or yes put that money into a harsh prison system. However you slice it this nanny hoa Karen horse shit is old.

 

[easy rider]

I also look at it like this: how much money gets wasted on gun control? Rather than bitching about who has a gun, why can’t we encourage programs to rehabilitate, get folks back to work, some actual helpful resources so people aren’t shitty? Or yes put that money into a harsh prison system. However you slice it this nanny hoa Karen horse shit is old.

How can we have a "great reset" if you keep letting the cat out of the bag?

 

[Kar98]

It's a trick that all the younger members of this forum need to recognize: "I'm a gun owner and all for gun rights, but..."

Once you see that ",but...", you should recognize that the writer is LYING to you. He doesn't support the Second Amendment or any other gun rights. It's a ploy to try to convince people that all those NRA or TSRA or other gun owner group members are some sort of Nazi fanatics and that "real" gun owners support government control. Avoid them like you would avoid a pit bull with rabies.

There's sufficient examples in history where there was just one more common sense reform, and then another, until there's nothing left but $50,000 shotguns for the ultra-rich that they're allowed to visit once a year, and lets get rid of those, also. Now, about those pointy sticks you got, peasant...

 

[cycleguy2300]

I hope Howard chokes on his own words!

I can think of lots of things I'd be OK with him choking on...

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[Axxe55]

I can think of lots of things I'd be OK with him choking on...

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I was trying to be forum friendly with my words!

 

[easy rider]

I can think of lots of things I'd be OK with him choking on...

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

Like that's never happened.

 

[Coyote9]

Anytime I hear "common sense" from a politician, I hear rules for commoners. Common sense gun control is just a term to skirt the Constitution.
[/QUO

The problem with this is you’re playing god. What of the people who fall under a small percentage that aren’t in your repeat offenders rate that do fall under the example I gave? You’re logic is the same as “I suppose the second amendment but”. My son could be a victim in a school shooting and I would still vote and voice against gun control. Gun control is an illusion; a bandaid. It doesn’t fix anything.

Agree to disagree and NO I am not playing God-Those small percentage guys you mention who committed a violent firearm related felony, fought for and earned the privilege of losing their right to possess or own a firearm.

 

[Coyote9]

Also think of it this way. We already have laws regarding the use of guns during a criminal act. Also, not one law ever passed, has ever stopped a criminal from getting a gun if they felt the need for one, or wanted one. I'm not opposed to anyone, regardless of what crime they committed to regaining their firearms rights. Taking another position on that argument is this. Where in the 2nd Amendment does it say one loses the right to bear arms, because they committed a felony? It doesn't.

Bear with me! Now allowing for the 5th and 14th Amendments for the due process of law, when a person is rightfully convicted of crime, and sentenced, they can under those provisions be deprived of their rights. But in all fairness, once their sentence has been successfully completed, their rights, including their right to bear arms should be restored intact back to them IMO.

I'd propose that there be stiffer penalties for a former felon that committed a criminal act using any weapon, but not restricting or depriving them the use of a firearm, or any weapon as long as they are used lawfully.

I would agree IF the denial of firearms extended through the entire probation period after release.

 

[Sam7sf]

Agree to disagree and NO I am not playing God-Those small percentage guys you mention who committed a violent firearm related felony, fought for and earned the privilege of losing their right to possess or own a firearm.

Would you still have that mentality if you or someone you know got railroaded and the punishment wasn’t justified? I get what you’re saying with violent folks. A lot of them should be hung. Those are the folks that stay in the system. Despite my postings I am of the opinion we should lower the bar for the death penalty and bring back public hangings at noon. Lol

There’s still a group of people that fall into grey categories. I full heartedly understand your perspective. You provide factual challenging points. A lot of crimes can be generalized while others are unique. It’s those unique cases that I disagree with your generalization of this topic.

 

[Coyote9]

Would you still have that mentality if you or someone you know got railroaded and the punishment wasn’t justified? I get what you’re saying with violent folks. A lot of them should be hung. Those are the folks that stay in the system. Despite my postings I am of the opinion we should lower the bar for the death penalty and bring back public hangings at noon. Lol

There’s still a group of people that fall into grey categories. I full heartedly understand your perspective. You provide factual challenging points. A lot of crimes can be generalized while others are unique. It’s those unique cases that I disagree with your generalization of this topic.

Then let a jury decide when restoration of voting and gun rights are to be returned on a case by case basis along with current sentencing guidelines- not perfect but no justice system ever is.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

I can think of lots of things I'd be OK with him choking on...

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