Woman indicted in fatal shooting after traffic accident - Houston

[matefrio]

Woman indicted in fatal shooting after traffic accident - Houston Chronicle

Don't know where the old post went, about 6 months ago. Seems the GJ found enough questions to put this to a jury.

 

[Driller]

Stuff like this may cause me to hesitate and get killed one day.

 

[scap99]

Hmm, will be interesting to see if the jury lets her off.

I remember hearing about this, and because it's close to where I live, I took a bit deeper interest in it.

 

[GaryH]

We certainly don't have all of the details, but IF witnesses confirm what the woman says I don't know that I would call it justified unless the door was jerked open or the glass broken BEFORE shots were fired. I do imagine she was scared, though.

I don't know the answer to this, but is banging on the door and glass and yelling, and her fear justification to pull the trigger?

Just like Driller suggested, if you hesitate do you die?

 

[txinvestigator]

I have written over and over again that fear is not a justification. You have to "reasonably believe" that deadly force is "immediately necessary" to protect yourself from the others use of attempted use of unlawful deadly force, or to prevent the imminent commission of murder, robbery, aggravated robbery, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault or aggravated kidnapping.

This will be a good training tool. It is sad a person had to die

 

[txinvestigator]

Stuff like this may cause me to hesitate and get killed one day.

I have read many of your posts. If you are as reasonable as you appear to be I think you would make a proper decision.

People get mad over traffic violations. It is not reasonable to shoot a person who just seems mad. I don't recall if you have a CHL, but if you do try to recall the non violent dispute resolution training.

 

[Ericstac]

I have read many of your posts. If you are as reasonable as you appear to be I think you would make a proper decision.

People get mad over traffic violations. It is not reasonable to shoot a person who just seems mad. I don't recall if you have a CHL, but if you do try to recall the non violent dispute resolution training.

I agree, but, I've also seen guys go from mad to skulls being cracked open in a split second.. Then again I've seen dudes act calm and then flip out and put a beat down on someone as well so..

It's scary to think you would ever be in any situation like this and it's best just to avoid being in that moment if at all possible.

 

[TX69]

 

[majormadmax]

I have written over and over again that fear is not a justification. You have to "reasonably believe" that deadly force is "immediately necessary" to protect yourself from the others use of attempted use of unlawful deadly force, or to prevent the imminent commission of murder, robbery, aggravated robbery, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault or aggravated kidnapping.

This will be a good training tool. It is sad a person had to die

Concur, I've seen idiots jump out of their cars and stand in the middle of traffic ranting about something; but as long as I can see their hands and that they are unarmed, I know they are not likely a deadly threat. That doesn't mean I let my guard down, as anyone who exhibits such idiocy can be unpredictable; but based on what little has been share with us, the justification for use of deadly force didn't seem to have been present.

Remember, the Grand Jury doesn't determine guilt, it only determines whether a criminal indictment--the formal accusation that a person has committed a crime--will be issued.

 

[alexrex20]

I agree, but, I've also seen guys go from mad to skulls being cracked open in a split second.. Then again I've seen dudes act calm and then flip out and put a beat down on someone as well so..

It's scary to think you would ever be in any situation like this and it's best just to avoid being in that moment if at all possible.

Just yesterday I saw the exact thing you mention: went from calm to flipping out. I pulled out of a neighborhood behind this guy. He went first, and stopped in the center lane to wait for a gap. About 15 seconds later, I pulled out of the neighborhood but went directly into the main lane. (Keep in mind that the center lane is not an acceleration lane so I merged with traffic the legal way.) As I passed the guy he lays on the horn, then guns it to try and block me. At this point I give him the bird out the window. He ends up stuck behind another car, but quickly maneuvers around them by cutting off two cars, then gets next to me and is basically hanging out of his window cussing me out. I just look at him, completely dumbfounded by his complete overreaction.

He cut me off, started slowing down, then pulls into the center lane, motioning for me to follow him. I keep going, so he gets back behind me and is riding my ass, honking his horn, and still motioning for me to pull over. By this point, I'm getting pretty pissed off... So I pull into the Starbucks parking lot and park it right there in front, where everyone was sitting. I calmly told them, "You might want to call the police."

The guy jumps out of his car and is yelling at me from behind his door, telling me to get out of my car. I finally told him, "Why don't you just come up to my truck? I DARE YOU. Come up here and walk to my window." By this point, I had my hand on my M&P. [And no, at this point I would not have shot him; I would've just driven away. I would've lured him away from his car, to give me a good head start once I left.]

The guy wised up and got back in his car and left. I was casually questioned by the Starbucks patrons about what the hell was going on. I told them the truth - I have no idea. One guy said he was about to call 911, but it looked like I had it under control... lol

Anyway, this scenario could've easily played out for a female driver. If this Jonathan Ables guy completely flipped his shit like the guy that I met yesterday, can anyone blame the lady for shooting him when he allegedly began banging on her car and tried to open the door?

 

[txinvestigator]

Just yesterday I saw the exact thing you mention: went from calm to flipping out. I pulled out of a neighborhood behind this guy. He went first, and stopped in the center lane to wait for a gap. About 15 seconds later, I pulled out of the neighborhood but went directly into the main lane. (Keep in mind that the center lane is not an acceleration lane so I merged with traffic the legal way.) As I passed the guy he lays on the horn, then guns it to try and block me. At this point I give him the bird out the window. He ends up stuck behind another car, but quickly maneuvers around them by cutting off two cars, then gets next to me and is basically hanging out of his window cussing me out. I just look at him, completely dumbfounded by his complete overreaction.

I think you overreacted. If you imagine flipping the bird at someone will not enrage them then I don't know what to tell you. Also, if you provoke someone you can lose justification for use of force.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you created that situation. I wonder if you would be so bold had you not been armed. One cannot be a provocateur when he is carrying a gun. The potential consequences are the most severe you can face.

 

[alexrex20]

I think you overreacted. If you imagine flipping the bird at someone will not enrage them then I don't know what to tell you. Also, if you provoke someone you can lose justification for use of force.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you created that situation. I wonder if you would be so bold had you not been armed. One cannot be a provocateur when he is carrying a gun. The potential consequences are the most severe you can face.

You can wonder all you want; you can think all you want. I still couldn't care less.

I do wonder if you're as arrogant in real life, as you are behind a keyboard...

 

[zembonez]

"Jonathan had his hands up. He was backing away, but she wouldn't let it go,"

If this is true... she deserves to be prosecuted.

 

[willygene]

He may be arrogant but you did do something to make that guy mad just because he honked his horn you flipped him off, why thats the kind of thing that provokes people into stupid things. you put yourself into that position.

 

[alexrex20]

He may be arrogant but you did do something to make that guy mad just because he honked his horn you flipped him off, why thats the kind of thing that provokes people into stupid things. you put yourself into that position.

I guess you also missed the part about him speeding up from the center lane, and trying to block me (by swerving at me).

 

[digitaltrip]

Smiling at them, then waving to them pisses them off the most.

Least that's what I discovered awhile back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[matefrio]

I guess you also missed the part about him speeding up from the center lane, and trying to block me (by swerving at me).

I don't think you understand that TXI is trying to help.

If you have a gun in the car your middle finger also needs to be concealed as well.

Holstering the middle finger may be the difference between jail and freedom after use of deadly force.

IF your incident had gotten to the point where you had to defend yourself with ANY deadly force, due to your middle finger,you may lose justification for use of force and end up in jail.

 

[transplanttexan]

I have a $30 dash cam in my truck from Amazon. It's always recording video and audio and is a great insurance policy on stuff like this. I know there is a video record of everything in front of my vehicle and audio record of everything in it. I'm actually considering picking up a second camera for my rear window since they're so inexpensive, the way people in Austin drive you can't have too much evidence.

 

[Wild hair]

Smiling at them, then waving to them pisses them off the most.

Least that's what I discovered awhile back.


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....and it can't be held against you in a court case! Cut txinvestigator some slack, he is just pointing out the "pit falls" off the incident you were involved in!
As a woman, at what point am I able to shoot some sob beating on myyyy window? Do I have to wait for him to break the window? Yes, I get trying to drive away 1st....

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[alexrex20]

I have a $30 dash cam in my truck from Amazon. It's always recording video and audio and is a great insurance policy on stuff like this. I know there is a video record of everything in front of my vehicle and audio record of everything in it. I'm actually considering picking up a second camera for my rear window since they're so inexpensive, the way people in Austin drive you can't have too much evidence.

I need one of those, but also cameras pointing rearward and to both sides, to get the full picture of how close this guy came to ramming me. Maybe then people would cut me a little slack when they say I overreacted.