Glocks Are not Safe for Cops to Carry

[TAZ]

Typical uneducated idiot spouting off at the keyboard. It's not a hardware issue, but a software one. I don't care how heavy of a trigger you give an untrained idiot if he puts his booger hook on the bang switch before he has a sight picture and is ready to shoot he will have an ND under stress. Reflex reactions are pretty much uncontrolled movements. If one can consciously squeeze the trigger the same finger can unconsciously do the same. Not rocket science. NYPD already has a horribly heavy trigger pull which I'm sure hinders their ability to actually hit much. Let's make it worse by doubling / quadrupling the trigger travel. That will help. Not more realistic training and FoF training. No no God forbid we do that and take away from the LGBT empathy sessions.

 

[jrbfishn]

Is there any factual evidence of the Bloggers political affiliation or leaning? Unfortunate that he focused on the gun used instead of the more important factor noted. All his examples cited stressful situations with adrenalin pumping. Regardless of training, officers are human and subject to all human traits and instincts. Thrown into dangerous and life threatening situations, they are supposed to maintain perfect trigger control? We hope so, but there is no guarantee. Any of you claiming to never having a ND actually had a gun pointed at you, been shot at or walked through a door not knowing what is on the other side? Because you have perfect trigger control at the range, a cop is expected without fail to duplicate your perfection with his life at stake?

Absolutely, we should expect cops to be better trained and perform better than the average Joe. The point that should be taken from the article is that under STRESS even well trained humans can make mistakes. Any gun is a mechanical object that does only what the operator commands - intentional or accidental.

Actually, in one of his examples, an officer had a ND while cleaning his sidearm.
He failed to properly clear his weapon. He failed to keep it pointed in a safe direction. He failed to keep his finger off the trigger until he was absolutely safe to do so.
In every example given by the writer from the LA Times, and we all know they are totally without reproach for fairness to firearms, , the problem was failure to follow the rules. Period.
The Glock they were holding, could give a tinkers damn if it shoots or not.

 

[Charlie]

Actually, in one of his examples, an officer had a ND while cleaning his sidearm.
He failed to properly clear his weapon. He failed to keep it pointed in a safe direction. He failed to keep his finger off the trigger until he was absolutely safe to do so.
In every example given by the writer from the LA Times, and we all know they are totally without reproach for fairness to firearms, , the problem was failure to follow the rules. Period.
The Glock they were holding, could give a tinkers damn if it shoots or not.

Well said!

 

[Stumpy]

We ALL have a part in safety and my friend James, prevented a possible tragedy. Lesson learned? If you see something wrong,.....SPEAK UP!

The point to my post is that "safeties", magazine disconnects, loaded chamber indicators are simply mechanical crutches. None of those things are necessary if proper gun handling techniques are used. I screwed up with my shotgun and no safety feature is going to protect against that. I was responsible and the Buck stops with me.

Flash

Bingo.

 

[Stumpy]

 

[stemoo01]

It's probably fair to say that most people on this forum are into firearms. A police officer may not be.

By no means do I think that's a valid excuse as to why an officer had their finger on the trigger in any given situation. But I could understand why an officer without constant reminders could make a mistake.

I don't think changing gun has a significant impact, heavy trigger == off target, light trigger == increased nd & training costs money...

Not sure if it already exists, but I'd love to see some kind of incentive for officer's to compete in idpa etc...

 

[robertc1024]

Wasn't there - but the golden rule for firearms is to take your finger off the trigger until it's go time (some mechanical failures, yes, I admit.) If they failed their "reminders" - it's all on them. I've got a lot of people on here who have shot my 1911's - yes, some were surprised when the gun went off, no - not any of them were operating it in an un-safe manner because of the light triggers. I appreciate your comment but you don't have an ND unless you are doing something you shouldn't 99% of the time.

 

[BIGPAPIGREG]

One thing that I have never heard, when talking about a ND, is that it was STILL an accident. I don't know anyone (and there are a few) that has had a ND that did it on purpose.

 

[stemoo01]

Wasn't there - but the golden rule for firearms is to take your finger off the trigger until it's go time (some mechanical failures, yes, I admit.) If they failed their "reminders" - it's all on them. I've got a lot of people on here who have shot my 1911's - yes, some were surprised when the gun went off, no - not any of them were operating it in an un-safe manner because of the light triggers. I appreciate your comment but you don't have an ND unless you are doing something you shouldn't 99% of the time.

Honesty I'm not trying to be factitious, but 99% is still three every day. You're after at a least 4 or 5 nines.

I'm could believe (no data) nd's are more corellated to competence over negligence.

 

[Blind Sniper]

One thing that I have never heard, when talking about a ND, is that it was STILL an accident. I don't know anyone (and there are a few) that has had a ND that did it on purpose.

I think that has more to do with the fact that a true accidental discharge is seen as (and directly caused by) a mechanical failure in the gun, and couldn't be consciously avoided by the user. Meanwhile an ND is the result of someone, either deliberately or out of stupidity, breaking/ignoring at least one rule of gun safety.

 

[BIGPAPIGREG]

Honesty I'm not trying to be factitious, but 99% is still one three every day. You're after at a least 4 or 5 nines.

I'm could believe (no data) nd's are more corellated to competence over negligence.

whuuuuuut?

 

[BIGPAPIGREG]

I think that has more to do with the fact that a true accidental discharge is seen as (and directly caused by) a mechanical failure in the gun, and couldn't be consciously avoided by the user. Meanwhile an ND is the result of someone, either deliberately or out of stupidity, breaking/ignoring at least one rule of gun safety.

I can agree with that, for the most part. But there are many instances where a ND is still just a bad accident yet, "negligent" discharge occurs because the trigger was pressed. Guess it could be called an Accidental Negligent Discharge.

 

[stemoo01]

...
Might need to clarify
...
An incompetent without training could have a finger on trigger. The negligent knows its a bad idea but still has finger on trigger

 

[Blind Sniper]

My rule of thumb is that if the trigger is pulled, then it's negligence. Otherwise, accidental. Of course, then we get the question of what to call it if someone drops a Fitz Special (or some other gun with no/an open trigger guard) and the gun hits something hard enough to fire "normally" >.>

 

[stemoo01]

T

whuuuuuut?

Ie. Incompetence can be worse than negligence

 

[benenglish]

OT Warning, maybe -

...the golden rule for firearms is to take your finger off the trigger until it's go time...

Like I often do, this is where I have to interject my "but". That's a golden rule for firearms used as weapons. For pure, traditional target shooting such as the ISSF disciplines and Conventional Pistol, that rule simply doesn't apply.

I appreciate your comment but you don't have an ND unless you are doing something you shouldn't 99% of the time.

The 1% (probably much less) of us for whom it is correct (indeed, mandatory) to put our finger on the trigger and start pressing it long before the sights are anywhere near the target thank you for that "99% of the time" verbiage.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Want to see a nd? Find my post that say I almost shot my wife. Pics included.
My phone won't let me in. But to be honest that's the only way it happens.
Im a member of the 1911 forum and not once have i read that one has gone off,with out assistance

 

[Mreed911]

Want to see a nd? Find my post that say I almost shot my wife. Pics included.

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/off-topic-chat/48910-what-near-fatal-nd-looks-like.html

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/off-topic-chat/48910-what-near-fatal-nd-looks-like.html

Thanks sir

 

[jrbfishn]

Both of my 1911s are Rock Islands. One full size and one compact. One night while working on them, I picked up the full size that stays loaded for HD by mistake. Startec to work on it and then decided just for grins to rack the slide. Wanted to slap myself for being a fool.
It CAN happen to anyone, anytime. It only takes one mistake. One time to not follow a rule.
It's not if, but when. We are all human.
May we all catch our mistakes before it is too late.