Let's talk wind turbines

[oldag]

The turbines as Horse Hollow Wind were first installed about 13 years ago, they were GE SLE or SLX series
About 2 years ago they were updated with a process called “Repower”. The manufactures offer the owners trade in value and they put up newer turbines, much more efficient than the older ones and they come in and drop the whole nacelle and replace it with the newer one.
The newer one produces more MW and that offesets the cost. The older nacelle get freshened up and are sold. Some of them went to developing countries like India.

So they were build and designed to be upgraded.

Actually, they were not designed originally to have new nacelles installed. However, engineering analysis is performed to determine what kind of loading the tower can take. Fortunately, there were some conservative safety factors in the original tower design.

The initial capital investment is still very high. Once the PTC is gone, you will see fewer repower projects in all likelihood.

 

[oldag]

Every time we have an oil boom, we end up with allot of associated gas from the oil wells.
The natural gas that can come off of this has been enormous. Just look at all of the flaring going on.

When natural gas gets dirt cheap, it makes it easier for natural gas/steam turbine plants to make energy and sell it. This competes with Wind.

The tax credit (taxpayer subsidy) of $23/MWh, gives wind an unfair advantage in the market place. This is why so many thermal plants have closed in Texas (and elsewhere).

This is making grid stability a challenge. Also why we are on the verge of blackouts on extremely hot days when the winds are down.

 

[vmax]

The tax credit (taxpayer subsidy) of $23/MWh, gives wind an unfair advantage in the market place. This is why so many thermal plants have closed in Texas (and elsewhere).

This is making grid stability a challenge. Also why we are on the verge of blackouts on extremely hot days when the winds are down.

And we scrapped the a bunch of the old gas fired steam turbine plants over the last 15 years...really stupid move ....

Right now, with feedstock being nearly free, gas fired plants are doing great.

 

[vmax]

Actually, they were not designed originally to have new nacelles installed. ...

Really? That’s a bold statement to make unless you were personally present at the design phase of all GE & Siemens turbines, a lot of which occurred in Europe..

 

[oldag]

Really? That’s a bold statement to make unless you were personally present at the design phase of all GE & Siemens turbines, a lot of which occurred in Europe..

Not a bold statement. Just fact. And you forgot Vestas.

 

[FireInTheWire]

When they re-powered the FIL's. That took the guts out and upgrade those components. Generator and blades. They kept the same nacelles.

 

[kbaxter60]

birddog,
I was going to mention that, but I don't know if birds being killed by the prop is a real thing or a b.s. rumor....sounds plausible.

It's a real thing. Texas Parks and Wildlife magazine did an article on this a couple of months back. Basically, lots of birds are killed, but it is far less than the numbers killed by house cats, automobiles, and other risks. They gave the numbers and it was orders of magnitude smaller for the wind turbines. I tried to find it to link to, but struck out...
Edit: Okay, here's the article. The numbers were in a sidebar and I don't see them here. Still, an interesting read.
https://tpwmagazine.com/archive/2019/mar/ed_3_wind/index.phtml

 

[oldag]

When they re-powered the FIL's. That took the guts out and upgrade those components. Generator and blades. They kept the same nacelles.

Now they are typically setting a new nacelle and rotor.

Even putting Vestas turbines on Clipper towers (with an adapter spool on top). GE similarly, but I think with fewer sites.

But today's repowers (as opposed to upgrades, which GE had done previously - e.g., 1.5 MW to 1.79 MW) the jump is much larger in terms of nameplate generation.

 

[birddog]

Every time we have an oil boom, we end up with allot of associated gas from the oil wells.
The natural gas that can come off of this has been enormous. Just look at all of the flaring going on.

When natural gas gets dirt cheap, it makes it easier for natural gas/steam turbine plants to make energy and sell it. This competes with Wind.

From what I’ve read the use of natural gas has environmental costs. Of course, when the oceans have risen 200 more feet and it’s 150 degrees outside I won’t be here to suffer for it.

 

[Dad_Roman]

Now they are typically setting a new nacelle and rotor.

Even putting Vestas turbines on Clipper towers (with an adapter spool on top). GE similarly, but I think with fewer sites.

But today's repowers (as opposed to upgrades, which GE had done previously - e.g., 1.5 MW to 1.79 MW) the jump is much larger in terms of nameplate generation.

How much is that stuff these days? Is it still around the 1M/Mw?

 

[cbigclarke]

Funny. I’m actually delivering nacelles to Bay City for the next 2 months


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[digger]

There is a possibility that turbines could get abandoned. Typically this would be 20+ years into their life. Not supposed to happen, but it will.

Ahhh, more "Super Funds" for tax payers to pay for!!!

 

[vmax]

Not a bold statement. Just fact. And you forgot Vestas.

I didn’t forget Vestas I’ve never been there personally while they were re-powering a Vestas farm, but I have during a GE and a Siemens.
But you would know, being the design engineer for all OEM’s.

 

[SQLGeek]

This thread has me...

1.21 gigawatts anyone?

@birddog I was in the SCADA world for a bit on the pipeline side.

 

[birddog]

This thread has me...



View attachment 183005

1.21 gigawatts anyone?

@birddog I was in the SCADA world for a bit on the pipeline side.

I was the Senior IT Security & SCADA lead/Network Architect and CERT forensics lead for the largest LNG & Petro products pipeline network in the nation. Among other things.

I get bored easily.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I stayed at a Holiday Inn once....

 

[SA_Steve]

SCADA, what's that ?
I retired from pipelines in 2014 after 14 years as SCADA manager for the largest refined products system in the US, 256 remotes. Control center is in Alpharetta. The 10 years before that, SCADA manager for the largest US natural gas system, 1101 remotes, headquarters in Houston. A lifetime of 24x7 on call and a huge collection of interesting staffers and a few drunks as CEO's.

 

[SQLGeek]

Birddog, I was all over the place. Didn't do much networking but did a smattering of other things. HMI and point to point commissionings, oncall control center support, etc etc. It was fun but got out of it because the future felt pretty limited where I was.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn once....

That's where your fancy towel collection comes from.

 

[Vaquero]

How much is that stuff these days? Is it still around the 1M/Mw?

Well?

 

[popper]

IIRC Ca sent a bunch of used ones to the north where they burned out!
Total waste of resources. As in EU, owners are bailing before bottoms up.