Reloading necked cartridges for the first time

[Dawico]

Just curious, how do you define full length size and be done with it for a beginner? That's interesting and I'm curious why you describe a critical part of rifle reloading that most beginners don't understand so casually.

$450 for a lifetime tool that makes loading every volume ammo caliber a breeze is a small investment, what 22.50 a year for 20 years? The span of reloading for good gear. Then again, if plinking mean loading a thousand rounds a year of 223 then maybe you are right.

To define "full length size and be done with it" I'll refer you to the instructions for the sizing die and almost every reloading manual ever written.

Size it until the die hits the shell holder is a pretty simple and fool proof method.

See, your reloading is way beyond normal and I think you forget that sometimes. I doubt 75% or more reloaders even load 1k rounds a year total. You do that, what, before your first cup of coffee is gone?

You wear out pro level tools. Most rookies will never wear out entry level equipment.

 

[Dawico]

I don't know how anyone can argue against having a case gage. Tells you if your resizing die is set up correctly and if your cases need trimming. Nothing could be easier than popping a case into a case gage. Out of all the things we do with reloading this must be close to the easiest.

I have seen more new reloaders question their case gauge readings than any other part of the reloading process.

The answer is always to try the round in their firearm.

Why not just start there using what you already have?

I am in the "never owned one or needed it" category.

If a guy wants one then have at it but I don't think they are a necessity.

 

[xkon]

To define "full length size and be done with it" I'll refer you to the instructions for the sizing die and almost every reloading manual ever written.

Size it until the die hits the shell holder is a pretty simple and fool proof method.

See, your reloading is way beyond normal and I think you forget that sometimes. I doubt 75% or more reloaders even load 1k rounds a year total. You do that, what, before your first cup of coffee is gone?

You wear out pro level tools. Most rookies will never wear out entry level equipment.

So I did use the shell holder to initially set the sizing die, but I did have to make adjustments to move the shoulder bump a bit that I wouldn't have known without the case gauge. I found it to be a useful tool that I would recommend to the next person. I won't need it after the die is adjusted but for any further adjustments I think it would be good to have.

However, I do appreciate you suggesting to save a few bucks where able. Most people will recommend quite a bit when it's not their money to spend.

I will be cranking out quite a bit of ammo though and will be working up to some precision loads for other calibers so going a bit above and beyond on some equipment won't bother me.

Just in December I loaded 6k rounds of 9mm so I'm no stranger to reloading and high volumes lol.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

No case gauge no comparator no un needed items ever used by me. 40+ years of loading. I wish I was o e to save targets to brag about. Thousands of one holders in 5-6 shot groups. Wasn't my intentions of loading it was being cost effective that drove my desire.

I load one at a time and everything is done by hand. Nothing electric or run via a drill.. learn how to adjust your dies and tools and always make dummy rounds. Don't play around testing umpteen brands and weights of bullets or .1 increments of powders. Find what your going to use and stick with it. Fine tune it and be done. Waste not want not.

 

[alternative]

A case gage is a tool. Nothing more. It helps you set up your die if you are trying to make ammo to SAMMI specs, not necessarily to fit a fireformed case to a specific rifle. With a properly set datum line it tells you if your case needs trimming. Trimming to SAMMI spec. Is it an absolute necessity, no? You may be reloading cases that you fired from a specific rifle and you will reload those cases for that rifle.
The fact that you have been reloading for 30-40 years is a credit to you and longer than I have but your experience doesn't help a newcomer just learning that is still trying to figure out how to set up a die.
Many things have changed over the last 40 years. Probably you didn't use an electronic scale 40 years ago. I am sure you didn't load rifle with Lee dippers so you probably have a balance beam scale. Nowadays I use a balance beam to confirm my electronic scale but I don't reload with a balance beam as my primary scale.
Everything we use to reload is a tool. Some tools make it easier for the other tools to work. Electric case prep tools vs manual case prep. Table mounted presses vs hand presses. Progressive presses vs single stage presses.
There are tools that are not necessary. Those electronic machines to fill up primer tubes on progressive presses are not necessary when you can do it by hand but if you have the money and it makes it easier go for it.
I personally find that a case gage is a helpful tool to use once on setting up a die and to use on every resized rifle case to see if it needs trimming. I could use calipers too but the case gage is easier. And in some situations I have an ammo checker as well. Case gages for rifle are not ammo checkers. But I have only been reloading 10+ years and not 30-40 years.

 

[deemus]

The die instructions are usually sufficient to get it set right. I normally trim my cases using the Lee case length trimmers. They take it to the correct length.

Seems the die makers should be making the case conform properly at the shoulder. It appears that way on my rounds. I’ve had zero issues with rounds not chambering, except on one gun that was out of spec. I sent it back and they gave me a new one. My loaded rounds worked perfectly in the new gun.

 

[alternative]

The die instructions are usually sufficient to get it set right. I normally trim my cases using the Lee case length trimmers. They take it to the correct length.

Seems the die makers should be making the case conform properly at the shoulder. It appears that way on my rounds. I’ve had zero issues with rounds not chambering, except on one gun that was out of spec. I sent it back and they gave me a new one. My loaded rounds worked perfectly in the new gun.

From Lee......
Screw the full length sizer in until it
touches the shell holder. Then lower the
ram and screw the die in ¼ to ⅓ turn
more. Raise the ram and tighten the lock
ring finger tight
I don't think this is enough to get it right. Maybe close enough but right? Case gage makes it right. That's all. Then you can use the case gage to see if it needs resizing. Lee trimmer works as do many others.

 

[DFW_Warrior]

......Many things have changed over the last 40 years. Probably you didn't use an electronic scale 40 years ago.....

....But I have only been reloading 10+ years and not 30-40 years.....

Look, I'm going to anger the heck out of a LOT of folks with my next comment. It is 100% true though, so I will go ahead and say it.

Some of the WORST advice I have ever received were from guys that have been reloading for 30-40 years. Not unsafe advice by any means, but totally non-relevant to the type of reloading I wanted to do, and they just didn't want to listen. In fact, some of it was so bad that I stopped reloading 6 months after I had gotten into it and didn't reload for 10 years. Now does this mean that I shouldn't listen to someone that has been doing it for decades, not at all. But does this mean that I shouldn't listen to someone who can only explain the reasoning behind why they do something by answering "well that's how I've done it for 40 years and it has always worked." Heck yeah, that means I shouldn't listen to them!

If I still listened to the advice given to me by the folks that have been doing it for 40 years, I would still be rock chucking my way to the most painful reloading that could possibly be. I wouldn't have a Dillon 650, I wouldn't have a bullet feeder, and on a good evening I would load up 100 9mm rounds and feel like I accomplished something. And then I would have quit reloading once again.

So all I will say is get advice from folks that can explain the why behind EVERYTHING they are and aren't doing. And get that advice from folks that load for similar type things that you want to load. Want to know how to load ammo for 3-gun, give me a shout. I've got some pretty good processes figured out for loading high quality ammo and a butt load of it. Want my advice for loading PRS stuff, the first thing I would tell you is to go ask someone else... LOL

 

[Two Gun Bob]

I've been playing with a 550 for about a year now, not a lot of volume just getting familiar with it. I think I'm headed back to a single stage, maybe someone can chime in as to how I might make the progressive work better:

1) dirty brass - do you progressive guys tumble it first? What do you do about the pockets? All I find is my sizing dies get dirty and contaminate all my brass with the ugly stick if I don't clean and polish beforehand, but I deprime before i do that so it's complete. In a single stage this is a smooth operation assuming you have a few gallons of range brass. What do you do for a progressive? Only use new? Tumble and forget the pocket? Add a single stage before hand?

2) primer seating - I really prefer the feel i get from a hand primer. I've had no issues with the tube on the dillon as long as i don't have a traffic jam, but I really prefer the hand primer, and I've found a few questionables that way as well. How do you tube feeder types (regardless of stage) feel about them vs hand primers?

Add to all this that I have to constantly futz with things and go through a process if anything gets out of whack, and i feel i have to spend an inordinate amount of time inspecting every aspect as it runs just to keep it all in sync, and I don't feel it's helping me personally in any way. I'm open to hearing how this helps any of you and maybe I can reevaluate, but it looks to me like unless i had a dedicated space for the whole setup I may as well do large runs through single processes at a time. I have one bench in one spot, so while I've noticed the 550 maintains its setup well it's still a minor pain to move or reset everything. If i had a dedicated bench then that would give the dillon an extra point for sure.

 

[RiverRider]

I didnt get past the first two words of the thread title before snickering...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Same here. I thought I was seeing a misspelling of "nekkid."

LOL.

 

[Havok1]

I've been playing with a 550 for about a year now, not a lot of volume just getting familiar with it. I think I'm headed back to a single stage, maybe someone can chime in as to how I might make the progressive work better:

1) dirty brass - do you progressive guys tumble it first? What do you do about the pockets? All I find is my sizing dies get dirty and contaminate all my brass with the ugly stick if I don't clean and polish beforehand, but I deprime before i do that so it's complete. In a single stage this is a smooth operation assuming you have a few gallons of range brass. What do you do for a progressive? Only use new? Tumble and forget the pocket? Add a single stage before hand?

2) primer seating - I really prefer the feel i get from a hand primer. I've had no issues with the tube on the dillon as long as i don't have a traffic jam, but I really prefer the hand primer, and I've found a few questionables that way as well. How do you tube feeder types (regardless of stage) feel about them vs hand primers?

Add to all this that I have to constantly futz with things and go through a process if anything gets out of whack, and i feel i have to spend an inordinate amount of time inspecting every aspect as it runs just to keep it all in sync, and I don't feel it's helping me personally in any way. I'm open to hearing how this helps any of you and maybe I can reevaluate, but it looks to me like unless i had a dedicated space for the whole setup I may as well do large runs through single processes at a time. I have one bench in one spot, so while I've noticed the 550 maintains its setup well it's still a minor pain to move or reset everything. If i had a dedicated bench then that would give the dillon an extra point for sure.

I tumble first, and don’t worry about primer pockets.

I also have no issues with priming on the press, other than I hate changing primer sizes.

What is getting out of whack? Dillons usually run pretty smooth.

 

[alternative]

I've been playing with a 550 for about a year now, not a lot of volume just getting familiar with it. I think I'm headed back to a single stage, maybe someone can chime in as to how I might make the progressive work better:

1) dirty brass - do you progressive guys tumble it first? What do you do about the pockets? All I find is my sizing dies get dirty and contaminate all my brass with the ugly stick if I don't clean and polish beforehand, but I deprime before i do that so it's complete. In a single stage this is a smooth operation assuming you have a few gallons of range brass. What do you do for a progressive? Only use new? Tumble and forget the pocket? Add a single stage before hand?

2) primer seating - I really prefer the feel i get from a hand primer. I've had no issues with the tube on the dillon as long as i don't have a traffic jam, but I really prefer the hand primer, and I've found a few questionables that way as well. How do you tube feeder types (regardless of stage) feel about them vs hand primers?

Add to all this that I have to constantly futz with things and go through a process if anything gets out of whack, and i feel i have to spend an inordinate amount of time inspecting every aspect as it runs just to keep it all in sync, and I don't feel it's helping me personally in any way. I'm open to hearing how this helps any of you and maybe I can reevaluate, but it looks to me like unless i had a dedicated space for the whole setup I may as well do large runs through single processes at a time. I have one bench in one spot, so while I've noticed the 550 maintains its setup well it's still a minor pain to move or reset everything. If i had a dedicated bench then that would give the dillon an extra point for sure.

I run all dirty brass through a single stage press with a Lee universal decap die and then tumble with corncob media. I tried stainless and ultrasonic but not thrilled and I don't care if brass looks like new (stainless pins). I check each brass by hand and check the primer pockets with one of those hand primer checkers. You need to manually examine your brass anyway so this is a good time. Now it is ready for full length resizing die. I don't run dirty brass through anything but my universal decap die.

 

[popper]

Case gauge? Nope don't need it. Don't need to check COAL either. Your FL die lock ring slips, Your seater stem jiggles. You load 100 of your hunting load. Opening day you see that trophy deer and you rifle doesn't like your reload. Nope, no problem!

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Case gauge? Nope don't need it. Don't need to check COAL either. Your FL die lock ring slips, Your seater stem jiggles. You load 100 of your hunting load. Opening day you see that trophy deer and you rifle doesn't like your reload. Nope, no problem!

Never happened in my lifetime of loading From 1980 to 2024 must be something new or to those who learned via the net or something.

 

[popper]

I would recommend a pocket swager vs the cutter which is a pain to get swaged pockets right. Also the Hornady OAL and HS comparator (or similar). Those are QC tools! Write the numbers down and easy to check your die settings. Yrs ago SIL got his boy a Weatherby 243, I loaded some hunting ammo for him that worked, used fired case to set the die. Other boy got another one later, ammo wouldn't chamber. I'm sure Lonesome Dove doesn't have a tire pressure measurement device either. I have Wilson case gauges but my chambers don't always match.
I shot moa @ 200 with cast bullets from my DPMS stock AR10 308W, 2400 fps so I guess I did something right. In my early 80s so the AR is too heavy to carry anymore.
Gordon's Reloading Tool (like QL) is free Windows software that is very useful and has been accurate for me. Do check book loads though.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

I run all dirty brass through a single stage press with a Lee universal decap die and then tumble with corncob media. I tried stainless and ultrasonic but not thrilled and I don't care if brass looks like new (stainless pins). I check each brass by hand and check the primer pockets with one of those hand primer checkers. You need to manually examine your brass anyway so this is a good time. Now it is ready for full length resizing die. I don't run dirty brass through anything but my universal decap die.

See this is exactly me as well. It kind of reduces the effectiveness of the progressive since I want to check/trim after sizing too. At that point if I use a hand primer for prep then the progressive really doesn't do much but save a step between powder and crimp.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

I tumble first, and don’t worry about primer pockets.

I also have no issues with priming on the press, other than I hate changing primer sizes.

What is getting out of whack? Dillons usually run pretty smooth.

Right, this is what my dad does. And I could be okay with leaving the pockets alone, whichj is why I asked. It just means a paradigm shift for me.

As for getting out of whack, I swear it ain't my fault! Some arsehole broke into my house and stuck a couple of 380s in my clean 9mm brass. If i ever find that jerk...

Plus just me getting things out of whack, forgetting to empty the filled shell on a restrike so I get a pile of powder at that stage, or running out of primers and realizing what that battery was supposed to do, or knocking that one bullet over crooked and trying to back up the process, you know just general crap that i personally blame on dillon. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Havok1]

Right, this is what my dad does. And I could be okay with leaving the pockets alone, whichj is why I asked. It just means a paradigm shift for me.

As for getting out of whack, I swear it ain't my fault! Some arsehole broke into my house and stuck a couple of 380s in my clean 9mm brass. If i ever find that jerk...

Plus just me getting things out of whack, forgetting to empty the filled shell on a restrike so I get a pile of powder at that stage, or running out of primers and realizing what that battery was supposed to do, or knocking that one bullet over crooked and trying to back up the process, you know just general crap that i personally blame on dillon. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Lol. .380 brass mixed with 9mm will certainly piss you off.

One thing I’ve found helpful is that once my primers run out, or I get interrupted for something, I finish loading the rounds that are already in the press, then refill primer tubes and get back to it with a fresh start. I’m pretty good about remembering to put the battery in my primer alarm, and also make it a habit to visually verify that the primers are getting dropped onto the arm, and then that it’s been seated. i can see why that could make you want to go back to a single stage though. As much as I love the speed of progressives, speed isn’t everything.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

I would recommend a pocket swager vs the cutter which is a pain to get swaged pockets right. Also the Hornady OAL and HS comparator (or similar). Those are QC tools! Write the numbers down and easy to check your die settings. Yrs ago SIL got his boy a Weatherby 243, I loaded some hunting ammo for him that worked, used fired case to set the die. Other boy got another one later, ammo wouldn't chamber. I'm sure Lonesome Dove doesn't have a tire pressure measurement device either. I have Wilson case gauges but my chambers don't always match.
I shot moa @ 200 with cast bullets from my DPMS stock AR10 308W, 2400 fps so I guess I did something right. In my early 80s so the AR is too heavy to carry anymore.
Gordon's Reloading Tool (like QL) is free Windows software that is very useful and has been accurate for me. Do check book loads though.

Yeah, I dont have things to have things I have things I need and things I use.

Some have the nack others not so much so I can't be of any help to ya.
Bye popper

 

[benenglish]

Redundant threads merged.

ETA - And un-merged. Author PMd me and made a good case for keeping his post in a separate thread.