Suggestions requested for close range

[hornetguy]

WTF? Stock against your hip? Maybe a water hose would be best for you. Indoors at home? If you knew anything, then you would know that the shot won't be spread any wider than your hand at indoor room distances. Think about AIMING.

Perhaps you've never heard of "point shooting". A shotgun would be fine across a living room with just a modicum of practice... holding a shotgun snugged against the side of your hip allows your arms to act as shock absorbers, taking most of the pain of recoil away...
Back when I was younger and dumber, I fired my rossi double barrel hammer gun from the hip...both barrels at the same time. It wasn't nearly as bad as I expected it to be. Sorta bruised my middle finger, but that was the extent of the pain..

 

[Younggun]

Perhaps you've never heard of "point shooting". A shotgun would be fine across a living room with just a modicum of practice... holding a shotgun snugged against the side of your hip allows your arms to act as shock absorbers, taking most of the pain of recoil away...
Back when I was younger and dumber, I fired my rossi double barrel hammer gun from the hip...both barrels at the same time. It wasn't nearly as bad as I expected it to be. Sorta bruised my middle finger, but that was the extent of the pain..

But the reason was claimed to be vision, not physical.

Also, shooting from the hip requires all of you important internal mushy bits to be completely exposed which is less than ideal.

Lastly, you can avoid the recoil almost altogether by not using a shotgun. Hip firing a double barrel on a dark room gets you poor accuracy and blinded by the muzzle flash. And you only have 2 chances to hit the target while not actually aiming at what could very well be a moving target before being empty and fumbling with shells in the dark while mildly blinded from the muzzle flash.

Again, she can do what she wants. But this is probably the least ideal option for defense in almost every situation I can conceive of besides being the only option available and having a dislocated shoulder.

 

[cycleguy2300]

By close range I mean up to 15 feet.
Home defense only
Inflict most hurt possible
Stock braced against my hip
Pump, lever, bolt - doesn't matter
Grab point pull, so always ready to fire
Safety not a bad idea, if such exists

Any suggestions on a gun, and what load would be good for that distance would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

A 18.5" semi-auto shotgun 00 or AR with proven reliability with the chosen ammo.

If your vision is bad, you could always run it with a laser.

Both would do the job, the AR with less recoil and more ammo immediately available, but against an unarmored target they would both be so effective as to be ridiculous.

Now, if you must GO to clear something a PCC, SBR or semi-auto submachine gun style weapon may be better so you don't telegraph a muzzle around a corner...

My personal choice for HD is a 11.5" 5.56 pistol with a suppressor.

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[Hoji]

Ballistic Gelatin Testing Results​

With ballistic gelatin testing using FBI-standard blocks, results are mixed. Some loads, like the Federal one-ounce slug, show impressive penetration depth comparable to full-size counterparts (around 22″), whereas others, such as the Federal Force X2, exhibited borderline performance that could potentially limit their effectiveness in real-world scenarios.

To sum it up: if deep penetration is your primary concern then standard-size shells would likely serve you better, especially at longer distances or through barriers; however if capacity holds higher priority for you then consider giving these mini-shotgun shells a try.

Understanding the Mini Shot Shell: A Comprehensive Guide

Discover the comprehensive guide to understanding the mini shot shell, its evolution, benefits, performance analysis and use in home defense scenarios.

bulkmunitions.com

Killed a corral trap full of 70-80lb pigs with a Mossberg Shockwave and buckshot/slug mini shells.

At 25’ all went down in one shot and none got back up.

 

[zackmars]

Killed a corral trap full of 70-80lb pigs with a Mossberg Shockwave and buckshot/slug mini shells.

At 25’ all went down in one shot and none got back up.

To be fair, back when the FBI designed their method, they were concerned about adults, not pigs

 

[hornetguy]

Lastly, you can avoid the recoil almost altogether by not using a shotgun.

Oh, I agree completely. I was simply answering the disagreement over how to fire a shotgun.

I used to be in the shotgun camp for home defense, but I've moved to the AR15 side... they are light enough to be handy, and they are, or should be, extremely effective. Recoil is non-existent. Over penetration would likely be less than with a PCC.... Aiming could be enhanced with some sort of laser sight...Muzzle flash would likely be equal to a shotgun, but you would have 20-30 rounds at your disposal, compared to a max of about 6 or 7 with a shotgun...

 

[zackmars]

Of the "big 3" rifle (in 5.56) pcc/pistol (9mm) or shotgun (#1-00 buck), the ar15 will have the least amount of penetration.

It'll still go through a lot of drywall, but you can't have an firearm that can effectively stop a threat yet be unable to penetrate 10-15 layers of drywall.

I've gone from shotgun, to ar, to pcc.

 

[seeker_two]

To be fair, back when the FBI designed their method, they were concerned about adults, not pigs

In the FBI's case, the pigs are behind the gun....

 

[Hoji]

To be fair, back when the FBI designed their method, they were concerned about adults, not pigs

Going to go out on a limb and say wild pigs may be a little tougher than a methbilly that has broken into your home.

 

[MountainGirl]

Thanks all for your thoughts, most appreciated.
I've enough information now, so enjoy the thread as you wish. Peace out.

 

[jakeintexas]

Please do not look at the rossi/taurus .410 revolvers seriously.

They are a meme gun that people like to shoot snakes with, despite the fact any other type of firearm will work just as well for that, usually better in fact.

If you decide to stick with a shotgun, you really are going to need to practice with it. Patterning, practicing reloads, etc. .410 costs twice as much as 20 or 12 gauge, so keep that in mind

Meh…plenty of Judge bashers out there. As well as advocates. Most of the bashers have never shot the gun.

The main disadvantages are they’re Taurus (whose had some QC issues in the past; I had to send back 2 Public Defenders which relatives now use—now they DID come back fixed) and .410 (which has issues on availability and cost).

The circuit court is both a .45 colt rifle and shotgun with full ballistics. Accurate enough 50 yard rifle.

The concept is extremely viable if loaded property. Worst case with the public defender you have a 5-shot 45 colt pistol in a package as big as an SP-101. No one scoffs at a 45 colt.

They kinda come into their own though for personal defense with the Federal 000 buck loading. Which do quite well in gel testing even out of the shorter barrel public defender; basically 4-380 slugs with each trigger pull and its own wound channel.

Obviously not my first choice for CCW in that the buck DOES spread out quite widely beyond 10-15 yards. But inside of that does quite well.

And you can load them with any combination of buck and colt. Like 3 000 buck shells and 2 colt rounds. Not exactly something not to take seriously.

In the case of the Tuffy with each round you are getting 5 000 buck pellets out of a full length barrel compared to 9 from a typical 12 gauge loading. Now the 410 will be at somewhat less velocity, but not all that much less. In a very compact, light, and maneuverable package. AND it handles like a revolver. AND you can alternate colt and buck as you see fit.

Point being I`d not discount it out of hand. The main disadvantages are Taurus quality issues and cost and availability of .410 ammo.

 

[Coyote9]

By close range I mean up to 15 feet.
Home defense only
Inflict most hurt possible
Stock braced against my hip
Pump, lever, bolt - doesn't matter
Grab point pull, so always ready to fire
Safety not a bad idea, if such exists

Any suggestions on a gun, and what load would be good for that distance would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Survival in any confrontation depends more on situation awareness and practice practice practice ...than on your choice of weapon.. That said, I personally position a 20 gauge pump with defense loads near door and carry a .45 acp pistol although again, any firearm (9mm and above will serve).....A friend killed his first deer with a .22 one shot, my cousin was shot and died from a .22 wound....all firearms can kill.

 

[Mike_from_Texas]

Oh, I agree completely. I was simply answering the disagreement over how to fire a shotgun.

I used to be in the shotgun camp for home defense, but I've moved to the AR15 side... they are light enough to be handy, and they are, or should be, extremely effective. Recoil is non-existent. Over penetration would likely be less than with a PCC.... Aiming could be enhanced with some sort of laser sight...Muzzle flash would likely be equal to a shotgun, but you would have 20-30 rounds at your disposal, compared to a max of about 6 or 7 with a shotgun...

Have you ever fired an AR15 indoors without hearing protection?


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[Younggun]

Have you ever fired an AR15 indoors without hearing protection?


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I’ve seen it on the movies. Has absolutely no effect on the shooter.

 

[hornetguy]

Have you ever fired an AR15 indoors without hearing protection?


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No, and I hope I never have to.... but it's probably not much worse than firing a shotgun indoors... I need to goober that.....
Deaf is better than dead....

 

[hornetguy]

I found one site that compares decibel ratings, and most all common calibers/gauges are in the 155 to 180 decibel range.
.223 is actually slightly lower than the 12 gauge.... lowest of all tested was the 20 gauge, but only by about 5 decibels....

of course, barrel length would likely play a role in the readings....

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I keep electronic ear muffs beside the bed.
In the event I have time to wear them.

 

[zackmars]

Meh…plenty of Judge bashers out there. As well as advocates. Most of the bashers have never shot the gun.

The main disadvantages are they’re Taurus (whose had some QC issues in the past; I had to send back 2 Public Defenders which relatives now use—now they DID come back fixed) and .410 (which has issues on availability and cost).

The circuit court is both a .45 colt rifle and shotgun with full ballistics. Accurate enough 50 yard rifle.

The concept is extremely viable if loaded property. Worst case with the public defender you have a 5-shot 45 colt pistol in a package as big as an SP-101. No one scoffs at a 45 colt.

They kinda come into their own though for personal defense with the Federal 000 buck loading. Which do quite well in gel testing even out of the shorter barrel public defender; basically 4-380 slugs with each trigger pull and its own wound channel.

Obviously not my first choice for CCW in that the buck DOES spread out quite widely beyond 10-15 yards. But inside of that does quite well.

And you can load them with any combination of buck and colt. Like 3 000 buck shells and 2 colt rounds. Not exactly something not to take seriously.

In the case of the Tuffy with each round you are getting 5 000 buck pellets out of a full length barrel compared to 9 from a typical 12 gauge loading. Now the 410 will be at somewhat less velocity, but not all that much less. In a very compact, light, and maneuverable package. AND it handles like a revolver. AND you can alternate colt and buck as you see fit.

Point being I`d not discount it out of hand. The main disadvantages are Taurus quality issues and cost and availability of .410 ammo.

Ive shot plenty

As a .45 colt pistol, they still suck. They have a cylinder that is too large and long, that is extra length and weight that could've been either gotten rid of, or put towards the barrel

Dutch loading is dumb. Load one round, that way you will always know what your gun will do. A home invasion isn't the time for guessing games

I would discount it out of hand because it does nothing better than a real revolver, and does nothing better than a .410 shotgun. In fact, due to being taurus, and the fact it has a rifled barrel, it does a lot of things worse

 

[zackmars]

Have you ever fired an AR15 indoors without hearing protection?


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All guns are loud. You're getting hearing loss either way.

 

[Younggun]

Pitch does play a role in hearing damage. Decibels matter, but they aren’t the only thing that matters.