Suggestions requested for close range

[cycleguy2300]

Have you ever fired an AR15 indoors without hearing protection?


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Yes, its loud.

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[red442joe]

1. Did someone say that they were not effective, or lacked sufficient stopping power?

2. “12 ga diameter projectile options”?
12 ga isn’t a diameter.
Even if it were, a singular “projectile” of that diameter would be a slug. Not a great choice for in home self defense.

3. Why not a 14” pump action with a brace? Why would that not be a better option,

Uhhh,
Actually, gauge is the diameter of the number of round lead balls that make a pound


Joe

 

[seeker_two]

All guns are loud. You're getting hearing loss either way.

The supersonic "crack" does more damage. That's why subsonic is the way to go for HD/SD rounds...

 

[Mike_from_Texas]

All guns are loud. You're getting hearing loss either way.

I don’t disagree but not only will muzzle flash be substantial, many people will be disoriented by an AR15 firing in an enclosed room.


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[zackmars]

I don’t disagree but not only will muzzle flash be substantial, many people will be disoriented by an AR15 firing in an enclosed room.


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The flash won't be that bad unless you're using a brake or a thread protector, or using a less effective flash hider on a short barrel.

A SF3P or SF4P will almost totally eliminate flash from even a 10.3 5.56, and there's lots of other options

 

[jakeintexas]

Ive shot plenty

As a .45 colt pistol, they still suck. They have a cylinder that is too large and long, that is extra length and weight that could've been either gotten rid of, or put towards the barrel

Dutch loading is dumb. Load one round, that way you will always know what your gun will do. A home invasion isn't the time for guessing games

I would discount it out of hand because it does nothing better than a real revolver, and does nothing better than a .410 shotgun. In fact, due to being taurus, and the fact it has a rifled barrel, it does a lot of things worse

The PD is about the same size as an sp-101 and a shade lighter. Inaccuracy due to the gap jump I’ve found to be an urban legend; mine are as accurate as any other snub I’ve shot. The rifling actually helps dispersion of the shot pellets at close range; although the federal 4-pellet patterns reasonably well at 10 yards.

There are better choices for CCW depending on one’s situation but it’s a great up close and personal gun when loaded properly. And there is good cause to use the federal 4 pellet ahead of a couple of colts IMHO. Multiple wound channels, decent penetration of the buck and reasonably accurate single projectile of the colt.

So’s I’ll scoff.

But the ‘it’s a Taurus’ is a valid point.

 

[zackmars]

The PD is about the same size as an sp-101 and a shade lighter. Inaccuracy due to the gap jump I’ve found to be an urban legend; mine are as accurate as any other snub I’ve shot. The rifling actually helps dispersion of the shot pellets at close range; although the federal 4-pellet patterns reasonably well at 10 yards.

There are better choices for CCW depending on one’s situation but it’s a great up close and personal gun when loaded properly. And there is good cause to use the federal 4 pellet ahead of a couple of colts IMHO. Multiple wound channels, decent penetration of the buck and reasonably accurate single projectile of the colt.

So’s I’ll scoff.

But the ‘it’s a Taurus’ is a valid point.

Comparing a polymer framed revolver to a chunky cast steel frame revolver isn't exactly a fair comparison. Isn't the SP101 also the heaviest small frame revolver on the market to begin with?

A bodyguard .38 is a little over half the weight.

You don't want dispersion of shot. Not only are you liable for everything that leaves your gun, a pellet that misses is a pellet that isn't doing anything

 

[jakeintexas]

Comparing a polymer framed revolver to a chunky cast steel frame revolver isn't exactly a fair comparison. Isn't the SP101 also the heaviest small frame revolver on the market to begin with?

A bodyguard .38 is a little over half the weight.

You don't want dispersion of shot. Not only are you liable for everything that leaves your gun, a pellet that misses is a pellet that isn't doing anything

I own and shoot (among other things) a K6s, sp101, and a PD. Yes the sp is a might heavy but my pocket gun is the K6s and not that much lighter (albeit 6 shot). The sp and K6s are similar with full house 357 rounds; stout but not painful (and wondering if worth it from the muzzle blast). Either is more than the 410 federal 000 4-pellet (which I doubt you’ve shot) or even 45 colt wadcutters from the light PD. Done some pretty extensive testing and patterning of the Federal. Nice round. Not my first choice for ccw but pretty good for a closer in fight or nightstand/bike/car gun. And pattern well for anything inside of 10 yards. In fact one 000 buck patterns at 10 yards 4 hits within a paper plate-ish size area many have trouble doing with a snubby to begin with. Coupled with spray and pray hit rates by some LE groups (less than 25%) with high cap 9s under pressure—or someone using a 00 buck loading from a conventional shotgun— I think the liability thing is a well moot point. And not something I’m gonna lose much sleep over.

 

[zackmars]

I own and shoot (among other things) a K6s, sp101, and a PD. Yes the sp is a might heavy but my pocket gun is the K6s and not that much lighter (albeit 6 shot). The sp and K6s are similar with full house 357 rounds; stout but not painful (and wondering if worth it from the muzzle blast). Either is more than the 410 federal 000 4-pellet (which I doubt you’ve shot) or even 45 colt wadcutters from the light PD. Done some pretty extensive testing and patterning of the Federal. Nice round. Not my first choice for ccw but pretty good for a closer in fight or nightstand/bike/car gun. And pattern well for anything inside of 10 yards. In fact one 000 buck patterns at 10 yards 4 hits within a paper plate-ish size area many have trouble doing with a snubby to begin with. Coupled with spray and pray hit rates by some LE groups (less than 25%) with high cap 9s under pressure—or someone using a 00 buck loading from a conventional shotgun— I think the liability thing is a well moot point. And not something I’m gonna lose much sleep over.

I have actually shot federal 000 .410. It's not a death ray. Out of a revolver it's just as worthless as any other .410 load. Except maybe slugs.

No one, and i mean no one takes judges seriously as a defensive tool because they are totally inferior to any other choice. For similar weight and size, you can get a much better revolver. Something that may have a longer barrel. May have a more durable frame. Something that may not be made in a brazilian favela.

Funny you bring up cops spraying and praying. Unless you're a cop, you don't have dep't/union backing for when you do something dumb. Also funny that the "high cap 9's" are far more accurate than a judge will ever be.

If you want to shoot .410, go buy a mossberg 500. If you want to shoot .45lc, go buy a SAA clone or a model 25

 

[seeker_two]

If you're doing .410, the smallest platform you should choose is the Mossberg Shockwave. But, a 500 Youth Model with a 18"-20" barrel is a much better choice.

 

[jakeintexas]

I have actually shot federal 000 .410. It's not a death ray. Out of a revolver it's just as worthless as any other .410 load. Except maybe slugs.

No one, and i mean no one takes judges seriously as a defensive tool because they are totally inferior to any other choice. For similar weight and size, you can get a much better revolver. Something that may have a longer barrel. May have a more durable frame. Something that may not be made in a brazilian favela.

Funny you bring up cops spraying and praying. Unless you're a cop, you don't have dep't/union backing for when you do something dumb. Also funny that the "high cap 9's" are far more accurate than a judge will ever be.

If you want to shoot .410, go buy a mossberg 500. If you want to shoot .45lc, go buy a SAA clone or a model 25

It’s a governor but same concept



And out of a Tuffy size longer barrel would do only that much better. And Federal also makes a magnum 5-pellet version. Yup it’s slower than a 12 gauge by some but still you’re getting 5 000 pellets and the 12-gauge standard is only 4 more.

As far as .410 slugs go that’s the one load I would NOT use. And to me shows a bit of lack of knowledge. Why use a .410 slug when you can use a .45 colt ? Now the slugs are fun to shoot with lots of flame out of the shorter barrels but they don’t get you anywhere.

So I’ll scoff at your scoffing when it comes to the Judge platforms. They’re a very viable close in defensive platform. Only drawbacks is they’re tauruses.

 

[zackmars]

It’s a governor but same concept



And out of a Tuffy size longer barrel would do only that much better. And Federal also makes a magnum 5-pellet version. Yup it’s slower than a 12 gauge by some but still you’re getting 5 000 pellets and the 12-gauge standard is only 4 more.

As far as .410 slugs go that’s the one load I would NOT use. And to me shows a bit of lack of knowledge. Why use a .410 slug when you can use a .45 colt ? Now the slugs are fun to shoot with lots of flame out of the shorter barrels but they don’t get you anywhere.

So I’ll scoff at your scoffing when it comes to the Judge platforms. They’re a very viable close in defensive platform. Only drawbacks is they’re tauruses.

I say slugs are better because it's one projectile. One chunk of lead you are liable for. Not 4 or 5 out of a rifled barrel that ensures they're flyers past 7 yards.

Of course .45lc is better than a .410 slug, in case you missed it, i was talking about .410 loads out of a handgun only. Not .410 vs .45 out of a handgun. You're tilting at windmills here.

Judges and governors are not viable. They are bigger, heavier, have worse balance, are lower quality, and less accurate than any other revolver, and its less effective, harder to shoot, and less accurate than a mossberg 410, even compared to a shockwave.