Ukraine War and Politics

[Havok1]

You were lamenting that no one had told you their plans just a few days ago...

QUOTE="Havok1, post: 3087166, member: 40867"]Our government not having a follow through beyond spend more money is the norm. It’s not unique to Ukraine. On our end, the only significance to that is that it’s a waste of time and money.

Again, just because you are not privy to something doesnt mean its not happening. Only minutes ago you had to be informed there were many, many US military folks on the front lines supporting Ukraine. Repeatedly you spread lies and falsehoods or misrepresent facts.

QUOTE="Havok1, post: 3087166, member: 40867"]Perhaps you think that our military and intel agencies that are working with Ukraine should check social media to get an idea of what is going on over there though. lol.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? There is lots of good intel on social media, I frequently use OSINT for police work. Soldiers in the era of social media often over share and because russia invaded and occupies populated areas, there are lots of eyes, ears and cellphone cameras to capture what is happening in real time. Remember when you claimed the attack on the Minsk and Rostov-on-Don were faked?

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[/QUOTE]
and yet you so frequently post stuff that’s inaccurate. No I don’t remember claiming those attacks were faked.

 

[cycleguy2300]

and yet you so frequently post stuff that’s inaccurate. No I don’t remember claiming those attacks were faked.

If so much of what I post is inaccurate correct it rather than a childish "your wrong"

You don't seem to remember a lot of things the way you repeat the cycle of lies and excuses...

-proxy war
-waste of money
-Ukraine is corrupt
-there is no plan
-russian production is surging
-if you dont know I wont tell you
-your information is wrong
&c, &c ad nauseam
After each had been picked apart you go to the next in the list and when you get to the end you start over.

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[Eastexasrick]

You’re sorry who didn’t tell me what first? The fact that you think me being given a plan for victory is required for them to have a plan is just more of your ignorance. Our government not having a follow through beyond spend more money is the norm. It’s not unique to Ukraine. On our end, the only significance to that is that it’s a waste of time and money. Ukraine can’t say the same. Perhaps you think that our military and intel agencies that are working with Ukraine should check social media to get an idea of what is going on over there though. lol.

Circular reasoning is the logical fallacy of using a claim to support itself. It happens when the premise and conclusion are the same.

 

[zackmars]

So still no examples for why you think I would help Russia, other than it being a random comment to someone who disagrees with you.

You still ignore than despite all the money we have sent to Ukraine they have been unable to take back their land, and are struggling with personnel.

I've argued with enough so called "fence sitters" to know when a duck looks enough like a duck to be able to call it a duck.

I'm ignoring it? Please do tell me how I'm ignoring it? You seem to be ignoring the fact that since it's a war, you kind of have to fight for what was taken from you. The LPR and DPR have been digging in since 2014, Russia has large (though dwindling) stocks of arms and armor, and still has enough people (though they're far from 1-A stock) to carry those rifles.

Meanwhile Ukraine is the size of Texas with the GDP of Kansas (actually slightly less). They don't have the luxury of being able to pull back and letting their enemies over extend their supply lines. Ukraine has been in a relatively low intensity conflict since 2015, and while foreign aid, advisors and training has helped, they're basically a brand spanking new government and military. No one is expecting Ukraine to pull off Desert Storm here.

 

[Havok1]

If so much of what I post is inaccurate correct it rather than a childish "your wrong"

You don't seem to remember a lot of things the way you repeat the cycle of lies and excuses...

-proxy war
-waste of money
-Ukraine is corrupt
-there is no plan
-russian production is surging
-if you dont know I wont tell you
-your information is wrong
&c, &c ad nauseam
After each had been picked apart you go to the next in the list and when you get to the end you start over.

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It is a proxy war, Ukraine is corrupt, there isn’t a plan, Russian production is increasing. Glad you finally posted some things that are accurate. Can’t say you’ve ever succeeded in picking anything I’ve said apart though. The reason why I’m so hesitant to do your homework for you is because you struggle with understanding the information provided to you, and I don’t know how to break it down any simpler for you. I remember not too long ago when you posted a video of a guy saying that we don’t actually provide money to ukraine, and you thought he was correct. I pointed out the inaccuracies in that, and you, even after posting the graph yourself that showed actual money provided to ukraine, still couldn’t figure it out.

 

[Havok1]

I've argued with enough so called "fence sitters" to know when a duck looks enough like a duck to be able to call it a duck.

I'm ignoring it? Please do tell me how I'm ignoring it? You seem to be ignoring the fact that since it's a war, you kind of have to fight for what was taken from you. The LPR and DPR have been digging in since 2014, Russia has large (though dwindling) stocks of arms and armor, and still has enough people (though they're far from 1-A stock) to carry those rifles.

Meanwhile Ukraine is the size of Texas with the GDP of Kansas (actually slightly less). They don't have the luxury of being able to pull back and letting their enemies over extend their supply lines. Ukraine has been in a relatively low intensity conflict since 2015, and while foreign aid, advisors and training has helped, they're basically a brand spanking new government and military. No one is expecting Ukraine to pull off Desert Storm here.

So you’re not ignoring it, you’re just redefining what success looks like? Thats ok. Our government is doing that to since they openly admit that the proxy war isn’t going well for Ukraine.

 

[zackmars]

Again, just because you are not privy to something doesnt mean its not happening. Only minutes ago you had to be informed there were many, many US military folks on the front lines supporting Ukraine. Repeatedly you spread lies and falsehoods or misrepresent facts.

QUOTE="Havok1, post: 3087166, member: 40867"]Perhaps you think that our military and intel agencies that are working with Ukraine should check social media to get an idea of what is going on over there though. lol.

What are you talking about? There is lots of good intel on social media, I frequently use OSINT for police work. Soldiers in the era of social media often over share and because russia invaded and occupies populated areas, there are lots of eyes, ears and cellphone cameras to capture what is happening in real time. Remember when you claimed the attack on the Minsk and Rostov-on-Don were faked?

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[/QUOTE]
and yet you so frequently post stuff that’s inaccurate. No I don’t remember claiming those attacks were faked.
[/QUOTE]


Because Russia is incompetent, and they didn't even stop to think that every Ukrainian having a communication device that is so powerful it'd make every military strategist from the dawn of time to 1987 collectively shit their pants was a problem.


Russia literally turned every Ukrainian into an OSIT agent.

You know what you do as step number 1 in an invasion? Kill the enemies COMs. You don't let them post on twitter with real time updates of your convoy. You don't let them post videos of them getting stuck in elevators.

 

[zackmars]

So you’re not ignoring it, you’re just redefining what success looks like? Thats ok. Our government is doing that to since they openly admit that the proxy war isn’t going well for Ukraine.

Ukraine is being invaded, all they need to do is to not loose.

Russia is invading. All they need to do is force the Ukrainian government to step down, and install a puppet that can remain in power.

As of now, Ukraine is doing a better job at achieving their objective.

 

[Havok1]

Ukraine is being invaded, all they need to do is to not loose.

Russia is invading. All they need to do is force the Ukrainian government to step down, and install a puppet that can remain in power.

As of now, Ukraine is doing a better job at achieving their objective.

Notice that in our governments eyes, not losing, and winning are two different things. Are you sure what they consider to be not losing is the outcome you’re striving for?

 

[zackmars]

Notice that in our governments eyes, not losing, and winning are two different things. Are you sure what they consider to be not losing is the outcome you’re striving for?

Our government says a lot of things. The people in it say a lot more things

Show me an official statement. Not "an unnamed source inside the pentagon" not some retired 4 star general. Not some current general posting his opinion on twitter. Not some random "military analyst" doing the rounds on all the nightly news programs

 

[cycleguy2300]

Our government says a lot of things.

Show me an official statement. Not "an unnamed source inside the pentagon" not some retired 4 star general. Not some current general posting his opinion on twitter.

And please not some out-of-date Col with a history of misinformation.

(Revised) Fact Checking Tucker Carlson's Interview with Col. Douglas MacGregor

Uncensored version with added footnotes

ryanmcbeth.substack.com

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[cycleguy2300]

Col Douglas MacGregor on Ukraine

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[Havok1]

Our government says a lot of things. The people in it say a lot more things

Show me an official statement. Not "an unnamed source inside the pentagon" not some retired 4 star general. Not some current general posting his opinion on twitter. Not some random "military analyst" doing the rounds on all the nightly news programs

Does it actually matter to you who says what? So far it only seems that it matters who says what if they are pushing the pro proxy war propaganda. Otherwise, it’s just Russian propaganda, no matter who it comes from.

 

[Havok1]

And please not some out-of-date Col with a history of misinformation.

(Revised) Fact Checking Tucker Carlson's Interview with Col. Douglas MacGregor

Uncensored version with added footnotes

ryanmcbeth.substack.com

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Isn’t that the same guy that failed miserably at trying to educate people on the funding of the proxy war?

 

[zackmars]

Does it actually matter to you who says what? So far it only seems that it matters who says what if they are pushing the pro proxy war propaganda. Otherwise, it’s just Russian propaganda, no matter who it comes from.

Maybe it'd help if the russians didn't lie about everything.

I don't see you backing up your argument.

 

[Havok1]

Maybe it'd help if the russians didn't lie about everything.

I don't see you backing up your argument.

what does the Russians lying have to do with what I said.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Isn’t that the same guy that failed miserably at trying to educate people on the funding of the proxy war?

WWII was a proxy war, why continue using meaningless words... or maybe they are not meaningless and you're simply trying to discredit Ukraine without facts, date or intelligence to form a coherent argument based on logic.

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[Havok1]

WWII was a proxy war, why continue using meaningless words... or maybe they are not meaningless and you're simply trying to discredit Ukraine without facts, date or intelligence to form a coherent argument based on logic.

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It’s only a meaningless word to you because you don’t know better.

 

[Eastexasrick]

Does it actually matter to you who says what? proxy

 

[zackmars]

what does the Russians lying have to do with what I said.

It absolutely matters who says what when one side constantly lies, the other lies, well, a lot less, and on both sides you have shills, nut huggers, and crusty old desk jockeys that would love nothing more than to get another invite to CNN.