Rifle type used in school massacre ‘designed to kill multiple enemy combatants at once’

[knormal]

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I'm going to voice it. It's my right.

I'm a gun owner, have been for years, have had rifles, pistols. I understand school shootings are the "cost of freedom", according to some. Are we getting apathetic in regards to mass shootings? Is that the cost of freedom? Is it so inconceivable we can't have a proper discussion of the evolution of the gun culture and hardware in the U.S.? Yes, SOMETHING needs to be done. Social media posts and emoji's of "support" for victims is not the answer. I think we need to make a cold hard look at both the systems that allow the purchase, and of the hardware and features that are readily available to enable a mass shooting spree. It's only getting worse, with no end in sight. And I don't like the price the innocents are paying.

 

[Vaquero]

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I'm going to voice it. It's my right.

I'm a gun owner, have been for years, have had rifles, pistols. I understand school shootings are the "cost of freedom", according to some. Are we getting apathetic in regards to mass shootings? Is that the cost of freedom? Is it so inconceivable we can't have a proper discussion of the evolution of the gun culture and hardware in the U.S.? Yes, SOMETHING needs to be done. Social media posts and emoji's of "support" for victims is not the answer. I think we need to make a cold hard look at both the systems that allow the purchase, and of the hardware and features that are readily available to enable a mass shooting spree. It's only getting worse, with no end in sight. And I don't like the price the innocents are paying.

You're right. That'll be an unpopular opinion.

 

[SQLGeek]

the hardware and features that are readily available to enable a mass shooting spree.

You've gone this far...say what you mean.

 

[knormal]

At what point do we say "Enough!"? When can we as gun owners look at what is available and wonder, is this worth it? Do I think we should have the right to bear arms, absolutely! But when does our advancement in firearms technology need to be reigned in? We don't sell automatic weapons to just everyone, why is that? Why do we then allow the technology to circumvent that restriction?

I'll repeat, the shootings are getting worse, and more frequent. Last I checked we don't have Tom Cruise being able to stop future crime. So what can we do about it? Do we just shrug our shoulders one more time and flip the page?

There are folks here much more learned in the culture than I, and what you think CAN be done?

 

[karlac]

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I'm going to voice it. It's my right.

You're right on both of the above.
Where you miss the boat is in your naiveté in thinking that guns are the problem.

I grew up in this country at a time when guns were much more visible and accessible than they are today. I actually took a gun to an urban school so I could hunt after school.

If guns are the problem, why now, but not then?

 

[SQLGeek]

But when does our advancement in firearms technology need to be reigned in?

Are you being intentionally vague?

Let's be honest, you are either advocating for an assault weapons ban or for a total semi-automatic rifle ban, aren't you?

Do you think the UK and Australia are models of gun control to be emulated?

 

[Vaquero]

At what point do we say "Enough!"? When can we as gun owners look at what is available and wonder, is this worth it? Do I think we should have the right to bear arms, absolutely! But when does our advancement in firearms technology need to be reigned in? We don't sell automatic weapons to just everyone, why is that? Why do we then allow the technology to circumvent that restriction?

I'll repeat, the shootings are getting worse, and more frequent. Last I checked we don't have Tom Cruise being able to stop future crime. So what can we do about it? Do we just shrug our shoulders one more time and flip the page?

There are folks here much more learned in the culture than I, and what you think CAN be done?

Fight fire with fire.
You'll never get firearms, of any kind, off the street or out of the hands of malicious criminals. We need an AR15 in every classroom. Every teacher should be proficient in its use.
Any unauthorized person who attempts to touch it should be tied to the flagpole and whipped. While every other person on campus watches.
Any teacher who refuses can find another career.
I'll go so far as to suggest that only combat veterans should be allowed to have a teaching certificate.

We should, but we won't.

 

[karlac]

Wasn't all that long ago (1936) that public executions were used a deterent to barbaric behavior, and practical students of human behavior throughout history, from the Bible on forward, seem to agree.

Go ahead, tell the families of those 17 folks who died yesterday that today's society has moved past barbaric behavior.

Gun control is not the solution and will not stop barbaric behavior, so at some point there will come a time to fight fire with fire once again.

That nothing else is working is too obvious to argue, and it has the added benefit of saving the taxpayer 20 years of lawyer appeals, movie deals and backdoor glorification in the media.

My prediction, and it's a valid one historically, is that the way this country is headed with its current demographics and rampant, media driven ignorance, is that it will eventually come back to that out of necessity.

Our Civil War was one of the most barbaric times in the history of mankind, and human history does nothing if not repeat itself.

</old man rant>

 

[AustinN4]

Rant on, brother!

 

[benenglish]

I think we need to make a cold hard look at both the systems that allow the purchase, and of the hardware and features that are readily available to enable a mass shooting spree.

Your heart is in the right place but you're proceeding from a false premise.

The phrase "mass shooting" is a relatively new one. "Mass murder" is more alliterative and was the preferred language for incidents with mass casualties back in the day.

Then one day the media woke up and realized they couldn't demonize guns as effectively if they referred to "mass murders". Why? What are the biggest mass murders in U.S. history? In order, the top 10 are:

1. 9/11
   • Weapon - airplanes
     
   • 2996 killed
2. Murrah Building
   • Weapon - bomb
     
   • 168 killed
3. Hartford circus fire
   • Weapon - fire
     
   • 167 killed
4. Happyland
   • Weapon - a gallon of gas
     
   • 87 killed
5. Las Vegas strip shooting
   • Weapon - rifles
     
   • 58 killed
6. Pulse Nightclub shooting
   • Weapon - rifle
     
   • 49 killed
7. Bath School Massacre
   • Weapon - bombs
     
   • 44 killed
8. Pacific Airlines Flight 773
   • Weapon - deliberately crashed plane after murdering flight crew with handgun
     
   • 44 killed
9. Pacific Southwest Airlines flight 1771
   • Weapon - deliberately crashed plane after murdering flight crew with handgun
     
   • 43 killed
10. Upstairs Lounge
    • Weapon - arson
      
    • 32 killed

The media realized, more than a couple of decades ago, that if they continued to refer to "mass murders", they'd only be educating the public that if you want to kill a lot of people, you don't use firearms, i.e. that focusing on firearms was a waste of time if you want to minimize the casualties that occur when one person sets out to kill lots of people. Except for the very recent Las Vegas and Pulse shootings, firearms played only a secondary role in the top 10 mass murders in U.S. history.

The result of this is that the mass media, collectively and in order to further their agenda, has deliberately hammered a demonstrably wrong impression into the collective consciousness of America - that mass killing is done by people with guns.

That's just not true.

Mass killings are done by people who are motivated to take lives.

The "systems that allow the purchase, and ... the hardware and features that are readily available to enable a mass shooting spree" are, in fact and in general, common items that have existed and been readily available to all Americans for at least the last 50 years. In 3 of the top 10 mass murders, the technology used to kill (fire) has been available since the dawn of mankind.

My conclusion from this is that the study of new technologies is a waste of time. Mass murder is a problem of the heart, not what's in the hands.

Now, balance that waste of time against the current situation. In America, we value basic human rights, including the right to meet life-threatening violence with life-saving violence. The political reality is that a study such as you propose could have only one possible outcome - further degradation if not outright abrogation of that basic human right.

I can sympathize with people whose hearts bleed for the victims and want to see something, anything done. Your motives in calling for study that might lead to something being done are completely understandable.

But down that path lies a reduction in freedom that will eventually lead to tyranny.

We should not set a single foot on that path.

ETA - Revised a couple of times due to an error and a suggestion that a "top ten" might seem more appropriate. Point unchanged.

 

[Kar98]

Well I'm all for locking up lunatics or at least not letting them have guns. But you know every time you hear "can we puhlease have some common sense gun control now", that's not what they're asking.

 

[easy rider]

It's the denigration of society. The more it happens, the more I feel I need to be armed. Notice that most, if not all, mass murders happen in a target rich environment. In a school where the chances of coming up against armed resistance are rare at best, I hate to say it, but 17 could be considered a low body count. I don't think that handguns couldn't accomplish that.

If you are suggesting we give up semi-automatic rifles, just remember, that's only a starting point. Those that advocate against such rifles won't be happy until all guns are taken, and at that point, we all become helpless to those that want to do us harm.

 

[AustinN4]

If you are suggesting we give up automatic rifles, just remember, that's only a starting point.

Not you too? Semi-automatic, please.

 

[Kar98]

Not you too? Semi-automatic, please.

Automatic, vs. fully automatic.

 

[sharkey]

All good questions that need answers. Did Breibart say what the FBI knew of him?

Something about how he posted about wanting to be a professional active shooter. Honestly the FBI was too busy lying for HRC and trying to impeach DT to mess with this. They dropped the ball on 9/11 with the suspicious pilots and dropped the ball with the Boston Marathon when our mortal enemies, the Russians, informed us of those 2. The premier LE agency in the US......


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[knormal]

Are you being intentionally vague?

Let's be honest, you are either advocating for an assault weapons ban or for a total semi-automatic rifle ban, aren't you?

Do you think the UK and Australia are models of gun control to be emulated?

Nope - to be honest, I'm not suggesting a semi-automatic weapon ban. Can't say I know the UK or Australia models very well - I'm just referring what's happening to the US.

I simply don't see the point in allowing a loophole for a device that emulates automatic rifle fire. And I don't understand the need for huge capacity drum magazines.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Automatic, vs. fully automatic.

Many would argue those are the same thing.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Nope - to be honest, I'm not suggesting a semi-automatic weapon ban. Can't say I know the UK or Australia models very well - I'm just referring what's happening to the US.

I simply don't see the point in allowing a loophole for a device that emulates automatic rifle fire. And I don't understand the need for huge capacity drum magazines.

How many, in your opinion, is enough as far as capacity goes?

 

[sharkey]

There are solutions but the left won’t hear them......unless it matches their outlook for more govt control and less freedom for citizens. The party that favors the murder of babies and a moratorium on the death penalty all while flaunting immigration law IS the problem. They are a cancer of divisiveness in this country and guess what, we are past the point of it getting better


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[avvidclif]

In the 30's when my mother started teaching it was common for school kids to bring rifles or shotguns to school. They were leaned in a corner of the classroom. They were expected to shoot something on the way home to help fill the pot. This was a one room school in west Texas, Coleman County to be exact. There were plenty of guns around then too. So tell me what has changed? It wasn't the guns.