I see why Hollywood is afraid of firearms - Alec Baldwin kills set employee

[BillM]

This is probably fake.

View attachment 283880

Even if this turns out to be true, on the movie set, saying that, thinking it's all fantasy, to me would not prove murder intent. He may not have meant to kill her and if he had followed basic gun safety rules that we all do, it would not have happened. Baldwin should have checked the gun to make sure it held no live rounds. He is ultimately responsible. This goes to show just how stupid and irresponsible hollywood is.

 

[Moonpie]

This is just a wild ass guess on my part.........

I'd bet money the gun in question was indeed loaded with "blanks". The gun wrangler probably loaded it correctly.
What many do not realize is blanks have a wad or card inside them that is expelled when fired. This wad is usually made of a hard cardboard type of paper. It holds in the gunpowder.
When fired this wad flies out of the muzzle just like a bullet. The wad quickly losses velocity and falls away or is obliterated by the expanding gasses. Typically that is just a few feet. At extremely close range that hard plug traveling at 1000fps or so is deadly.
My money says that asshole Baldwin thought it would be "funny" to point the gun at the victims and scare or frighten them by popping off a "harmless" blank.
The gun wrangler never expected somebody to fire his prop gun in someones face.
Baldwin fvcked up. Plain and simple.
I pray for the unfortunate victim but fvck A.B.
He is an anti-gun hypocrite who runs his pie hole about banning guns and how gun people should be done away with yet makes his living portraying people using guns. Fvck him with a rusty cactus in his azz.
I hope the basturd gets sued into the poorhouse.

 

[Kar98]

Baldwin is responsible on both ends. He’s listed as a producer for the movie and he was the one who disregarded the basic four rules.

 

[benenglish]

"The prop gun ... contained a “live single round,” according to an email sent by IATSE Local 44 to its membership."

 

[benenglish]

If a prop gun can fire a regular cartridge, what makes it a prop gun?

Serious question. I've seen prop guns with blocked muzzles to increase muzzle flash and prevent a projectile from exiting the muzzle. I've seen prop guns that were completely non-functional. I've seen all kinds of prop guns. But I thought the definition of "prop gun" was something that couldn't fire a "live round."

A little research on YouTube quickly turns up prop masters displaying guns that they say can fire live rounds.

Obviously, I'm missing something. I've now watched a half-dozen interviews with people who work on real production crews with firearms and the things they say are sometimes completely contradictory to each other. I don't want to take this thread off on too much of a tangent but there a lot of videos online about movie guns and the standard for best practices seems to be, well, not very standardized at all.

Curious.

 

[Moonpie]

The prop guns I've seen range anywhere from a non-firing assemblage of parts up and including working firearms. Prop gun means it comes from the prop shop that supplies sets with the various other equipment for a scene, historical or present day.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Charge him with negligent homicide and assault / battery. Did he intend to harm those people? Maybe/probably not. Doesn't matter because he DID. He had a firearm in his possesion. I don't care if its a prop gun that is *supposed* to be fitted to only shoot blanks. I don't care that they have a professional "gun wrangler" that is supposed to be responsible. Ultimately the person with the gun in their hands, using it negligently or purposefully in malice is responsible for what happens when it is misused.

Baldwin has been an outspoken anti-2A mouthpiece. He likes to paint gun owners with a broad brush, and he wants US held to high standards. What's good for the gander is good for the goose. If actors want to play with guns in movies - they should be required to go thru the same goddamned firearms safety training that they would shove on law abiding citizens to own and use firearms - no exceptions. Every damn one of them should be taking a 4 or 8 hour class on proper safe handling of firearms - real, props, rubber guns - whatever. They should know how to do a basic function check, they should know how to check for barrel obstructions, they should know when something isn't right. They should NOT get off Scott-free when they pull the trigger and something bad happens "CuZ mUh MoViE"

If ANY of us had been in a similar incident, Baldiwn and those like him would be calling for blood. They would scream for tighter restrictions, they would scream for training requirement, they would want the maximum penalty under the law. Apply it to him, and every SAG card carrying actor.

I understand to make realistic movies you have to violate the four rules - using a prop gun - but that doesn't relieve you of your personal responsibility to ensure that the prop gun is NOT going to cause harm to someone else when you're doing it. If that's too much to ask - then they shouldn't be making movies with blank firing guns, real guns, or anything more dangerous than an Air Soft pistol.

And a surgeon watches each tool come out of the sterilizer and into a pack and tracks it to the OR?

Do we check the calibration and setting of the lig nut torque when you get a new tire installed?

Do we verify each factory round we shoot was loaded with the correct type and amoint of powder so a kaboom won't hurt the joker next to us at the range?

Alec, just like the rest of us trust others to do their job. Was Alec doing something extra stupid or what's the known story now?

"The four rules" are guidelines, not inerrant, inspired scripture.

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[Kar98]

The one time I asked somebody who was starring in a semi huge show she said she was using a solid rubber gun painted to look real.

 

[Harry_Gorilla]

Even if this turns out to be true, on the movie set, saying that, thinking it's all fantasy, to me would not prove murder intent. He may not have meant to kill her and if he had followed basic gun safety rules that we all do, it would not have happened. Baldwin should have checked the gun to make sure it held no live rounds. He is ultimately responsible. This goes to show just how stupid and irresponsible hollywood is.

If a prop gun can fire a regular cartridge, what makes it a prop gun?

Serious question. I've seen prop guns with blocked muzzles to increase muzzle flash and prevent a projectile from exiting the muzzle. I've seen prop guns that were completely non-functional. I've seen all kinds of prop guns. But I thought the definition of "prop gun" was something that couldn't fire a "live round."

A little research on YouTube quickly turns up prop masters displaying guns that they say can fire live rounds.

Obviously, I'm missing something. I've now watched a half-dozen interviews with people who work on real production crews with firearms and the things they say are sometimes completely contradictory to each other. I don't want to take this thread off on too much of a tangent but there a lot of videos online about movie guns and the standard for best practices seems to be, well, not very standardized at all.

Curious.

I was quick to jump on the "I hate Alec Baldwin" bandwagon; I've read, and been told so many far-fetched theories and 'eyewitness' accounts, that it's becoming comical. One said that he was waving the gun around in a "I hate Trump" rant, before firing it. As much as this would solidify his looney persona; it's hard to grasp, since none of this comes from anything I would consider a credible source. Speaking of which; I've found not one morsel of information, in many different searches, that would indicate any type of reckless behavior. The latest post I saw, was he and his family packing up to head home. I seriously doubt this would be allowed if criminal culpability were in question.

I realize that he's a member of a protected class, but, something this newsworthy, I think; would stand out. And; yes, the press do run silent as they protect these vermin, but they can hardly be considered bosom buddies with him after all of the outrageous stories they've penned about him in recent years.

As far as the "prop gun" is concerned; from what I've read, and been told; there's a lot of possibilities, depending on the budget, the armorer, the type of weapon they want to depict, etc. I reckon we're just going to have to wait for an official word.

All I can think of, after reading all of his ignorant anti 2A posts is; Karma's a bitch!

 

[Kar98]

Do we check the calibration and setting of the lig nut torque when you get a new tire installed?

Do I ever!

 

[cycleguy2300]

Did she make a mistake? Yes. Did her mistake rid of one likely another life long criminal we’d be supporting for the rest of his short useless life? Also yes.

And she likely could have articulated the use of deadly force there. At least that would have had a fighting chance rather than "oops"

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[benenglish]

Lots of people are trying to parse this out. For example, USA Today.

 

[toddnjoyce]

"The prop gun ... contained a “live single round,” according to an email sent by IATSE Local 44 to its membership."

This statement from the union in the article above, if true, may have a huge impact on civil liability.

“Local 44 has confirmed that the Props, Set Decoration, Special Effects and Construction Departments were staffed by New Mexico crew members,” Pawluc said. “There were no Local 44 members on the call sheet. On behalf of Local 44’s Officers, Executive Board and Staff, our thoughts and prayers go out to Halyna and her family. We also send good thoughts to Joel and his family for a full recovery.”

 

[Renegade]

Lots of people are trying to parse this out. For example, USA Today.

Waiting for facts is no fun

 

[Lonesome Dove]

How is it negligence, if you are "supposed" to fire a prop gun at the camera and you aren't a gun expert and the gun wrangler was supposed to have handed you a "safe" gun to do that with? IMO, the negligence is more likely with whoever handed him the gun.

Yeah ok would you have done that?

 

[cycleguy2300]

Yeah ok would you have done that?

I don't go digging into a berm at a range... we'll have to see what the whole story is. I'm sure there were multiple layers of ****-ups, but who's and how integral they were to the incident is yet to be seen.

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[BillM]

This is just a wild ass guess on my part.........

I'd bet money the gun in question was indeed loaded with "blanks". The gun wrangler probably loaded it correctly.
What many do not realize is blanks have a wad or card inside them that is expelled when fired. This wad is usually made of a hard cardboard type of paper. It holds in the gunpowder.
When fired this wad flies out of the muzzle just like a bullet. The wad quickly losses velocity and falls away or is obliterated by the expanding gasses. Typically that is just a few feet. At extremely close range that hard plug traveling at 1000fps or so is deadly.
My money says that asshole Baldwin thought it would be "funny" to point the gun at the victims and scare or frighten them by popping off a "harmless" blank.
The gun wrangler never expected somebody to fire his prop gun in someones face.
Baldwin fvcked up. Plain and simple.
I pray for the unfortunate victim but fvck A.B.
He is an anti-gun hypocrite who runs his pie hole about banning guns and how gun people should be done away with yet makes his living portraying people using guns. Fvck him with a rusty cactus in his azz.
I hope the basturd gets sued into the poorhouse.

I don't think it would have penetrated her body and wounded another if that's all it was..

 

[BillM]

How is it negligence, if you are "supposed" to fire a prop gun at the camera and you aren't a gun expert and the gun wrangler was supposed to have handed you a "safe" gun to do that with? IMO, the negligence is more likely with whoever handed him the gun.

Wrong. In this case dead wrong. Basic gun safety falls on the person holding the gun. That person should have made sure. I'm not a "gun expert" and I would have made certain the gun was not loaded with live ammo.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Wrong. In this case dead wrong. Basic gun safety falls on the person holding the gun. That person should have made sure.

That's just not the case.

I point guns at my kids and they point them at me and I dont verify that they dont fire live ammo each time. They are nerf guns, but that's still a gun right? I mean gun is in the name so all rules should apply.

Prop guns *generally* are not able or designed to fire live ammo. That doesn't mean they are not dangerous, but it does mean like a "dangerous" hammer a number of "rules" can be disregarded under normal circumstances.

Let's wait and see what happened before jumping into assigning fault.


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[BillM]

That's just not the case.

I point guns at my kids and they point them at me and I dont verify that they dont fire live ammo each time. They are nerf guns, but that's still a gun right? I mean gun is in the name so all rules should apply.

Prop guns *generally* are not able or designed to fire live ammo. That doesn't mean they are not dangerous, but it does mean like a "dangerous" hammer a number of "rules" can be disregarded under normal circumstances.

Let's wait and see what happened before jumping into assigning fault.


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Lol, that's ridiculous. Nerf guns don't fire a hunk of metal at high velocity. Also, great way to teach the kids gun safety.