Sapience. Any animals you think could be evolving to basic human like sapience?

[justmax]

Your opinion of the definition isn’t really relevant.

That’s why I didn’t use examples like that. Those aren’t evolution.



Yes it would.



Yes it is. But it isn’t a wolf. There are no German shepherds outside of those bread to be German shepherds. Forced evolution by humans through selective breeding.

When domesticating animals we choose to breed those with traits we wish to promulgate and avoid breeding those with traits that are detrimental. This does the same thing as natural selection in nature, we are just steering the result by choosing the selection.




The difference is that we breed horses to produce specific traits. There is no natural breed of quarter horse for example. You could have a wild quarter horse, but it doesn’t make it lose the traits it received through breeding. This goes back to the dog example above.



Yes, that is another example. But the timescales required to see such a change is beyond anything humans could currently witness. You’d need to watch a species while traveling at very near the speed of light in order to live long enough to see that change happen.



Maybe they could if taught. We don’t know how intelligent they were. I mean, take humans who never have access to schooling and they would have no concept of algebra. Still human. So maybe when we figure out how to travel back in time (exceed light speed?) we can go back and try to teach one and see what happens. Caveman is a pretty broad term though. Hopefully we find one that has at least figured out farming. But IIRC by that point they were considered “early humans” so idk. This may drag towards other topics so I’ll leave it.



I hope you don’t mean the examples like the butterfly lifecycle. While it is technically accurate to describe it as “an evolution” of sorts, it’s far from what is meant when discussing evolution in terms of natural adaptation of a species.



That is where you are wrong though. You were given examples, you just refuse to acknowledge them.


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I wish I had the patience you have just shown to address each point so concisely. Too often, I just shake my head watch some more Gunsmoke reruns.

 

[Younggun]

Your opinion of the definition isn’t really relevant.

I wish I had the patience you have just shown to address each point so concisely. Too often, I just shake my head watch some more Gunsmoke reruns.

My computer is down right now so I can’t get on my flight sim in VR, plus I went from years of drinking probably a half gallon of Dr Pepper everyday to only water about a week ago.

So I guess I need the distraction, lol.


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[Tnhawk]

Walking upright and capable of speech are not always signs of intelligence!

As I've said before - Some people have been educated beyond their learning ability.

 

[Tnhawk]

You folks must be smoking the really good stuff.

Roll me another one.....

 

[Axxe55]

Here's one I find somewhat confusing. Dogs and wolves are canines, house cats and tigers are felines. How did some evolve into being domesticated? What makes one wild and another to be domesticated?

IIRC, I read something years ago, that dogs were some of the first animals to be domesticated

 

[Axxe55]

My computer is down right now so I can’t get on my flight sim in VR, plus I went from years of drinking probably a half gallon of Dr Pepper everyday to only water about a week ago.

So I guess I need the distraction, lol.


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Need to try Mtn. Dew. It will give you an extra kick.

 

[Axxe55]

Roll me another one.....

Pass it around.

 

[Younggun]

Need to try Mtn. Dew. It will give you an extra kick.

Nah, cut out sodas completely except maybe if I go out to eat or something.


Lifestyle changes and whatnot. Feeling much better in general.


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[Younggun]

Here's one I find somewhat confusing. Dogs and wolves are canines, house cats and tigers are felines. How did some evolve into being domesticated? What makes one wild and another to be domesticated?

IIRC, I read something years ago, that dogs were some of the first animals to be domesticated

I’ve seen the theories on it. Basically the lest aggressive and/or skittish wolves would hang around the human camps and eat scraps. Overtime their pups would learn to be trustful of humans as well and less aggressive. Humans lost some fear of them. Then they figured out the canines were helpful in hunting so the wolves would help find game or track wounded game with the hunters. Hunters would give some food to wolves. Good wolves thrived, “bad” wolves would be killed if they attacked or simply not want to be near hunters.

Over time this resulted in basically breading the traits of the better wolves. And during times of hardship the more domesticated wolves would have better chances of survival do to working with humans. And eventually turning in to domesticated dogs, with many breeds eventually being formed based on different traits being preferred and bred.


And before anyone comes in asking “why do we have wolves then?”, it’s because not every type of wolf worked with humans. Not even every wolf of a particular species of wolf.

This is a theory though based on evidence. Time machine needs a few more weeks to be properly tuned before we know for sure.


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[Younggun]

I don’t know about cats though. But they aren’t good bois so I don’t really care.


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[Glenn B]

Bonobos (Pan paniscus) - either them or chimps. Those two are the most human like of the apes. Then there are the octopi.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

 

[jordanmills]

Here's one I find somewhat confusing. Dogs and wolves are canines, house cats and tigers are felines. How did some evolve into being domesticated? What makes one wild and another to be domesticated?

IIRC, I read something years ago, that dogs were some of the first animals to be domesticated

Humans domesticated dogs. Cats domesticated themselves. Or so the theory goes.

 

[jordanmills]

I don’t know about cats though. But they aren’t good bois so I don’t really care.


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Don't worry about the cats. Satan will care for his own.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

 

[Tnhawk]

Here's one I find somewhat confusing. Dogs and wolves are canines, house cats and tigers are felines. How did some evolve into being domesticated? What makes one wild and another to be domesticated?

IIRC, I read something years ago, that dogs were some of the first animals to be domesticated

I believe some canines chose to become domesticated as they have a pack mentality. They see their owner as the alpha of their group. When a new dog comes into my home, an order is quickly established. While my greyhounds spend the majority of their time sleeping, one chooses to follow me throughout the house day and night. Previously I had a blue tick hound who followed me from room to room and blocked the doorway from the other dogs.

 

[Tnhawk]

Don't worry about the cats. Satan will care for his own.

Unlike dogs, cats are devious, unteachable animals.

 

[Axxe55]

Unlike dogs, cats are devious, unteachable animals.

Our's are sweet and lovable cats. Our oldest one has been with us for about twenty years now.

 

[msharley]

Cucumbers.

Why cucumbers, you ask?

A lot of the folk I see every day? Would be hard pressed to beat a blame CUCUMBER in an intelligence test.

 

[justmax]

To quote Monty Python, "And now for something totally different"...I will state some rather well documented facts regarding changes in modern humans and then I will pose a couple of questions.

Fact #1 - Cumulative knowledge grows exponentially faster than an individual human can comprehend or digest it all. As recent as 2-300 years ago, a good Doctor could know most all there was to know about practicing medicine. Now we have specific specializations.

Fact #2 - Physical changes/evolution of some humans have occured, for some known and some unknown reasons, in relatively short spans of time. In the same 2-300 years many modern humans have come to grow taller, reach puberty sooner, etc. Go past looking at changes over centuries and study some millennial changes and the same applies. Archeology has all but proven that in some modern humans, our little toes are getting smaller or maybe evolving away entirely. The study I read specifically referenced the cultural effect on genetics. In cultures where shoes were worn, the little toe was not needed for balance. This change crossed over sub-species (racial) and geographic lines.

Fact #3 - Over a short period of time, a high protein diet increases our intelligence (mind), and over a long period of time, it increases our cranial capacity (brain).

Opinion #1 - As equally important as intelligence, is the ability to utilize that knowledge gtat one has. A dolphin, elephant, pig, whatever, cannot build a space station without and opposable thumb to hold the tools, let alone inventing the tools to begin with.

And now for the questions that will probably start some shit or get the thread back on track to what the OP started.

Question #1 - What if a canine's dew claws evolved into an opposing thumb. Why do we often remove them. The same applies to the racoon, which I believe is in the family or even genus. Their problem solving ability seems to outshine dogs. Ask anybody that keeps chickens.

Question #2 - If modern humans possess sapience, are we not obligated to nurture, pass on, and propagate that trait?

Question #3 - Assuming the answer to question #2 is a "yes", are we as humans better off to train and/or genetically modify other primates to mine our resources or should we continue on the path of Artificial Intelligence in robotic machinery to do the tasks we humans don't want to do.

Inquiring minds want to know. And yes, I had nothing better to do tonight than to stir this pot.