Sapience. Any animals you think could be evolving to basic human like sapience?

[jordanmills]

I got a staph infection from a cut when I was teenager. Spent a week in the hospital with IV's in both arms. Not a fun way to start the summer vacation.

I got a staph infection on my elbow that started going systemic. My doctor threatened me with amputation if I didn't stick with the antibiotics prescribed and report in immediately if it started getting worse again. It wasn't an idle threat. I've got pictures around somewhere.

 

[Younggun]

^ Caution of misinformation.

Mosquitos are not resistant to DEET in the way suggested. Only the “yellow fever species” of mosquito is “resistant” to DEET - And the term “resistant” is very loosely used. The only reason that the yellow fever mosquito is said to be resistant to DEET is only because the yellow fever mosquitos no longer sense the smell of DEET and are thereby not repelled by it - at most, this is only an example of devolution.

No such thing as devolution.

Even if there were, this would not be an example of it.

And by no longer sensing it and therefor not driven away by it some females are able to feed in areas that others can’t. This made them more successful so the trait was passed on to their offspring leading to a species of mesquite that is not deterred. This change allowed some mosquitos to be more successful than others. It’s the only way natural evolution happens. If it were more detrimental than positive for survival those with the abnormality would not survive and the trait would go away.


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[Axxe55]

Dog breeds, coyotes, and wolves, horses, donkeys, and mules, and lions, ligers, tigons, and tigers. The latter two are pushing it, but I'm inclined to think they're all members of the same species or "super-species".

But some years ago, I read an article about cross-breeding hybrid results in infertility of the resultant offspring. Is that true?

 

[Younggun]

In a similar vein (lol see what I did there?), many blacks are affected by sickle-cell anemia. But they were selected for it by the environment in much of africa, where mosquitoes carry malaria but sickle-cell anemia is associated with a strong resistance to it.

Also, lactose tolerance in people of northern european descent.

Wow, didn’t know that about sickle cell


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[jordanmills]

Wow, didn’t know that about sickle cell


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Oh yeah. It's actually a little more complicated, but there's a very clear association.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23170194/

Abstract​

Sickle cell anaemia is a major chapter within haemolytic anaemias; at the same time, its epidemiology is a remarkable signature of the past and present world distribution of Plasmodium falciparum malaria. In this brief review, in keeping with the theme of this journal, we focus on the close and complex relationship betweeen this blood disease and this infectious disease. On one hand, heterozygotes for the sickle gene (AS) are relatively protected against the danger of dying of malaria, as now firmly established through a number of clinical field studies from different parts of Africa. In addition, experimental work is consistent with a plausibile mechanism: namely, that in AS heterozygotes P falciparum-infected red cells sickle preferentially and are then removed by macrophages. On the other hand, patients who are homozygous for the sickle gene and therefore suffer from sickle cell anaemia (SCA) are highly susceptible to the lethal effects of malaria. The simplest explanation of this fact is that malaria makes the anaemia of SCA more severe; in addition, in SCA there is often hyposplenism, which reduces clearance of parasites. From the point of view of public health it is important that in malaria-endemic countries patients with SCA, and particularly children, be protected from malaria by appropriate prophylaxis.

 

[Axxe55]

I got a staph infection on my elbow that started going systemic. My doctor threatened me with amputation if I didn't stick with the antibiotics prescribed and report in immediately if it started getting worse again. It wasn't an idle threat. I've got pictures around somewhere.

Mine morphed into blood-poisoning. Damn near killed me.

 

[jordanmills]

But some years ago, I read an article about cross-breeding hybrid results in infertility of the resultant offspring. Is that true?

That is usually the case in some of those examples. It seems to relate to loss of genetic information in a subspecies (i.e. it's completely selected out of the isolated population) in a way that causes hybrid sterility. Horses have 64 chromosomes, donkeys have 62, and mules (and hinnies) have 63. Most mules and hinnies are sterile, but a significant minority have been found to be fertile (probably more than expected since practically all male mules are castrated in a usually-futile attempt to improve their temper).

https://academic.oup.com/biolreprod/article/52/monograph_series1/273/5050322

 

[Younggun]

Only time I had staph it started below my lower lip. Didn’t realize what it was, then it spread up the side of my face near my temple.

Got a shot and some meds. Doc said the shot was stuff strong enough to kill an elephant and was extremely serious about taking the meds until the bottle was empty. Draining it was both very painful and disgusting. It would drain below my lower lip. I could run my hand down the side of my face and feel it all getting pushed down through the pocket that had formed. Horrible.


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[General Zod]

^ There it is - our differences of opinions/views are in our definition of evolution.

The definition of evolution that I subscribe to does not consider domestication of animals, or even drug resistant bacteria, to be examples of evolution.

A proper definition of evolution does not include the life stages of a butterfly changing from an egg, to a larva, to a pupa, and finally a butterfly.

A proper definition of evolution does not include a scientist engineering a dog breed that has wings and can fly.

But dogs that naturally develop the ability to speak English and carry-on an intelligent conversation, without a scientist engineering - that would be an example of evolution.

A German Sheppard is physically and mentally still a German Sheppard whether domesticated or wild - domestication and/or training is not equal to evolution. A “Tarzan” would still be just as human as yourself. A horse might be considered as domesticated, but only a well trained horse; a wild horse is no less a horse than a well trained horse.

A proper example of evolution would be a large portion of fish that naturally develop lungs and legs in order to leave the water and live on land - a fish that becomes a caveman.

Another proper example would be caveman developing into a being that can understand algebra - a caveman becomes a human.

Those examples are purely fictional theory espoused by scientists that can not be proven, yet is brainwashed into our children’s minds by educators who are supposedly smarter than I.

There are zero examples of evolution, and there never will be.

Any mutation in an animal or plant that finds success and is repeated enough times through successive generations is an evolutionary change. And yes, bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics is an example of evolutionary adaptation. You could argue that humans going from living in grass huts to developing the knowledge and ability to put space stations in orbit is one, too. Adaptation is the definition of evolution.

A butterfly going through it's well known and documented life stages is not evolution, and nobody is claiming it is. Holding that up as an exampe shows that you're either not paying attention to the discussion, or not comprehending it.

Domestication of animals isn't evolution - but the fact that those animals have developed down the years into specific, varied breeds with their own distinct, ingrained, instinctive behaviors is. Unless you're going to insist a dingo, a bull mastiff and a chihuahua are all exactly the same creature, or that a pomeranian has the same herding instinct as a border collie. Evolution is a change in a species due to environmental factors, and it can be guided and urged along by humans. And...there are no "wild" German Shepherds. Feral ones, sure, but there were no great packs of German Shepherds roaming Europe waiting for humans to domesticate them.

 

[mad88minute]

How about kimchi???

It took me some time, but I learned to like it. I still eat it to this day. Wife won't touch it or me after i partake.

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[General Zod]

It took me some time, but I learned to like it. I still eat it to this day. Wife won't touch it or me after i partake.

I like to mix kimchi with sauerkraut and cole slaw, for that multicultural cabbage experience.





OK, no, I don't. But I'll eat any of those three if they're made well...and any of those three will taste like crap if they're not made well.

 

[Younggun]

^ There it is - our differences of opinions/views are in our definition of evolution.

The definition of evolution that I subscribe to does not consider domestication of animals, or even drug resistant bacteria, to be examples of evolution.

Your opinion of the definition isn’t really relevant.

A proper definition of evolution does not include the life stages of a butterfly changing from an egg, to a larva, to a pupa, and finally a butterfly.


A proper definition of evolution does not include a scientist engineering a dog breed that has wings and can fly.

That’s why I didn’t use examples like that. Those aren’t evolution.

But dogs that naturally develop the ability to speak English and carry-on an intelligent conversation, without a scientist engineering - that would be an example of evolution.

Yes it would.

A German Sheppard is physically and mentally still a German Sheppard whether domesticated or wild - domestication and/or training is not equal to evolution.

Yes it is. But it isn’t a wolf. There are no German shepherds outside of those bread to be German shepherds. Forced evolution by humans through selective breeding.

When domesticating animals we choose to breed those with traits we wish to promulgate and avoid breeding those with traits that are detrimental. This does the same thing as natural selection in nature, we are just steering the result by choosing the selection.

A “Tarzan” would still be just as human as yourself. A horse might be considered as domesticated, but only a well trained horse; a wild horse is no less a horse than a well trained horse.

The difference is that we breed horses to produce specific traits. There is no natural breed of quarter horse for example. You could have a wild quarter horse, but it doesn’t make it lose the traits it received through breeding. This goes back to the dog example above.

A proper example of evolution would be a large portion of fish that naturally develop lungs and legs in order to leave the water and live on land - a fish that becomes a caveman.

Yes, that is another example. But the timescales required to see such a change is beyond anything humans could currently witness. You’d need to watch a species while traveling at very near the speed of light in order to live long enough to see that change happen.

Another proper example would be caveman developing into a being that can understand algebra - a caveman becomes a human.

Maybe they could if taught. We don’t know how intelligent they were. I mean, take humans who never have access to schooling and they would have no concept of algebra. Still human. So maybe when we figure out how to travel back in time (exceed light speed?) we can go back and try to teach one and see what happens. Caveman is a pretty broad term though. Hopefully we find one that has at least figured out farming. But IIRC by that point they were considered “early humans” so idk. This may drag towards other topics so I’ll leave it.

Those examples are purely fictional theory espoused by scientists that can not be proven, yet is brainwashed into our children’s minds by educators who are supposedly smarter than I.

I hope you don’t mean the examples like the butterfly lifecycle. While it is technically accurate to describe it as “an evolution” of sorts, it’s far from what is meant when discussing evolution in terms of natural adaptation of a species.

There are zero examples of evolution, and there never will be.

That is where you are wrong though. You were given examples, you just refuse to acknowledge them.


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[justmax]

To all of you that have given such descriptive examples of your staph infections, I request permission to use them in my weight loss program I want to market. Once I convince James Earl Jones to read them, I see an app that one could listen to when hunger hits. If Pet Rocks sold in the 70's this could work. Any investors?

 

[Younggun]

Lol. Sorry.


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[jordanmills]

To all of you that have given such descriptive examples of your staph infections, I request permission to use them in my weight loss program I want to market. Once I convince James Earl Jones to read them, I see an app that one could listen to when hunger hits. If Pet Rocks sold in the 70's this could work. Any investors?

I'm not in a position that I could invest, but I'm happy to license some photos of my staph infection. That should help with weight loss goals.

 

[bbbass]

Sorry if somebody already said this... I din't read thru the entire thread, as usual,


But my first thought was that too many humans are going in the other direction!!!

 

[mad88minute]

To all of you that have given such descriptive examples of your staph infections, I request permission to use them in my weight loss program I want to market. Once I convince James Earl Jones to read them, I see an app that one could listen to when hunger hits. If Pet Rocks sold in the 70's this could work. Any investors?

Damn. I'm still thinking about the lime green sternum sherbet Ben mentioned.

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[Axxe55]

Sorry if somebody already said this... I din't read thru the entire thread, as usual,


But my first thought was that too many humans are going in the other direction!!!

Walking upright and capable of speech are not always signs of intelligence!

 

[Axxe55]

Damn. I'm still thinking about the lime green sternum sherbet Ben mentioned.

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I'm thinking @benenglish won the gross-out award for this thread today!

 

[mad88minute]

Sorry if somebody already said this... I din't read thru the entire thread, as usual,


But my first thought was that too many humans are going in the other direction!!!

Yeah Levieux beat you to it.

See post #41.

I think the three of us were all thinking along the same train of thought.

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