Ukraine invasion

[Havok1]

These people all seem very concerned about the need for our “help”.

 

[benenglish]

View attachment 326221
These people all seem very concerned about the need for our “help”.

Context, please.

That photo has cropped up a lot over the last few days. Few people go read the articles associated with it. Here's one that views these sunbathers not as being unconcerned about the war but as being defiant, showing that they can persevere even while under attack. The article also includes a photo showing smoke rising from recent explosions in the city as well as this quote:

Many, but by no means all, of the 2 million inhabitants who Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko said had fled when Russian forces tried to encircle the city in March are now returning. But with soldiers falling by the hundreds to the east and south, the surreal calm of Kyiv is laced with nagging guilt.

I've spoken to at least one first-generation immigrant from Ukraine who came over a couple of years ago. The war in the east and south has been going on for years, sometimes waxing, sometimes waning. Kiev has gotten accustomed to it. As far as they're concerned, Russia has been occupying some of their land for 4+ years. So, yeah, they can take a holiday in a city that's been hit with exploding ordnance within the last week. That does not mean they are not genuinely "very concerned."

 

[Havok1]

Context, please.

That photo has cropped up a lot over the last few days. Few people go read the articles associated with it. Here's one that views these sunbathers not as being unconcerned about the war but as being defiant, showing that they can persevere even while under attack. The article also includes a photo showing smoke rising from recent explosions in the city as well as this quote:



I've spoken to at least one first-generation immigrant from Ukraine who came over a couple of years ago. The war in the east and south has been going on for years, sometimes waxing, sometimes waning. Kiev has gotten accustomed to it. As far as they're concerned, Russia has been occupying some of their land for 4+ years. So, yeah, they can take a holiday in a city that's been hit with exploding ordnance within the last week. That does not mean they are not genuinely "very concerned."

if they were “genuinely very concerned” the dudes there would probably be going to fight the Russians instead of taking their family to the beach.

Another poster asked what makes ukraine so special, and it seems those who are the happiest about the “aid” we are providing are likely receiving campaign donations from the companies who build the equipment we are buying to send over there, and these people at the beach couldn’t care less.

 

[cycleguy2300]

View attachment 326221
These people all seem very concerned about the need for our “help”.

I'll let you in on a secret.

Life goes in spite of war...
Either that or the last number of wars really werent...

Because we all know a single photo tells the whole story.

Because if any of those guys had "really" cared they wouldn't have left the front line.

Don't be so fast to judge others. Those "men" are boys. 16-17... and maybe they have jobs that the government thinks is important to keep, or they have an injury that keeps them from joining, or they are home on leave, or maybe they don't want to fight. We just don't know, so don't assume too much.

I can tell you first hand I have yet to meet ANYONE with the slightest bit of disregard for any of the help given. They are grateful or the support from individuals and our nation. They didn't want this war bit they want to finish it and reclaim the land russia stole in 2014.

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[Younggun]

Resources.


It’s why we fight wars in some places to protect freedom and ignore wars in other places where freedom is being crushed.


Like it or not, Ukraine has some important resources that Ru would like to control. They couldn’t buy control like we did, so instead they invaded.

Personally, I don’t trust Russia to control those resources. Don’t feel it’s on our best interests. Especially when it comes to Ru and China.

 

[Brains]

So, yeah, they can take a holiday in a city that's been hit with exploding ordnance within the last week. That does not mean they are not genuinely "very concerned."

I'll let you in on a secret.

Life goes in spite of war...
Either that or the last number of wars really werent...

Great points to make. People are incredibly resilient when they need to be, and (some) people have a lot of tenacity when faced with dire circumstances. Seems like an odd concept for some, but hardship often brings out the best in people.

 

[Havok1]

Life goes in spite of war...
Either that or the last number of wars really werent...

Because we all know a single photo tells the whole story.

Because if any of those guys had "really" cared they wouldn't have left the front line.

Don't be so fast to judge others. Those "men" are boys. 16-17... and maybe they have jobs that the government thinks is important to keep, or they have an injury that keeps them from joining, or they are home on leave, or maybe they don't want to fight. We just don't know, so don't assume too much.

I can tell you first hand I have yet to meet ANYONE with the slightest bit of disregard for any of the help given. They are grateful or the support from individuals and our nation. They didn't want this war bit they want to finish it and reclaim the land russia stole in 2014.

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Or maybe things just arent quite like the media/government want people to believe and the picture they want to paint is of the most doom and gloom because that’s what is most profitable for them.

 

[mad88minute]

Context, please.

That photo has cropped up a lot over the last few days. Few people go read the articles associated with it. Here's one that views these sunbathers not as being unconcerned about the war but as being defiant, showing that they can persevere even while under attack. The article also includes a photo showing smoke rising from recent explosions in the city as well as this quote:



I've spoken to at least one first-generation immigrant from Ukraine who came over a couple of years ago. The war in the east and south has been going on for years, sometimes waxing, sometimes waning. Kiev has gotten accustomed to it. As far as they're concerned, Russia has been occupying some of their land for 4+ years. So, yeah, they can take a holiday in a city that's been hit with exploding ordnance within the last week. That does not mean they are not genuinely "very concerned."

Have you ever walked the streets of Seoul South Korea?

They are just a stones throw away from the DMZ covered in landmines with an army ready to invade. Chemical warfare is the first planned move by the north. And nuclear when available. Everyone lives their life there.

I have, and it was always strange going back to my small base 2 km from the DMZ, really close to the joint security are.

I'm on the fence about how much support, how to support, but there is no question there is a major humanitarian problem. civilian casualties are happening. And i personally can't be too callous about that.

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[Cooper]

Spent a few minutes walking around a McDonalds parking lot today...

The blast from these munitions is mostly radial. Think Saturn's rings. So like the craters in the street, the area the splinters impact indicate the rough direction the munitions came from because it is on a ballistic trajectory just like an arrow launched to a distant target will stick into the ground at an angle that will show its launch point.

For those interested, I have included a map of the location of this Mcdonald's and a map showing the approximate direction the munitions came from.

Another thing to see is how much evidence there is to be found literally laying on the ground. Granted had this been grass, I likely would never have found a single part. This took maybe 20 minutes to collect. Fins (I am 90% sure they are) some really large chunks of the body, aluminum fuze... lots of it is there and this was just what was outside in the parking lot. This is why civilian bombers can be identified, bombs don't disappear when they blow up, the parts just get smaller. In generally civilian explosives lack both the engineering, power and brisciance to come close to turning it self into so many small parts as a military munitions can.

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Damn @cycleguy2300, are you in country?

 

[benenglish]

Damn @cycleguy2300, are you in country?

By this time, I sorta figured that would be obvious.

 

[kustik12]

Not sure if it is a same guys from TF Baguette.
Maybe.

Good,
They are alive

 

[Cooper]

By this time, I sorta figured that would be obvious.

Yea I guess so.... I'm a little slow on the uptake.... I'm just catching up on this thread.... considering his day job and my respect for that gig I didn't consider him going down range.

 

[Cooper]

Yea I guess so.... I'm a little slow on the uptake.... I'm just catching up on this thread.... considering his day job and my respect for that gig I didn't consider him going down range.

Wow. Didn't come out like I meant... to be clear I have mad respect for what he does every day for us. And mad respect for a man willing to back his brother in a time of need.

 

[Cooper]

By this time, I sorta figured that would be obvious.

Thanks Ben for the reality check.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Or maybe things just arent quite like the media/government want people to believe and the picture they want to paint is of the most doom and gloom because that’s what is most profitable for them.

You do realize I have been in Ukraine for well over a month now and have seen the doom and gloom first hand... I am not the media, I am not the government.

I am the one taking the photos of what I see as I walk the cities in my spare time. They are not internet photos, they are what I am seeing.

I have seen with my own eyes where russia is using unguided anti-personal cluster munitions in areas where there are ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFIABLE MILITARY TARGETS, there is nothing but small shops and apartments.

The ONLY governmental building I have seen damaged was a State Government office in Kharkiv, about as much a military target as a county courthouse...

Kharkiv is a ghost town. Finding a restaurant is very difficult and the grocery stores are also few and far between, then when found haveblimited selection. I had some soft cheese and some cherry jam filled croissants for dinner the other day because it was pretty much all that I could find that didn't need to be cooked.

I have never met a kinder or more generous people than Ukrainians. They have sacrificed their food and privacy for me. Gone above and beyond to show me things, take me places, teach me words, make sure I am taken care of. It has been embarrassing to be so well off and have it so easy yet Ukrainians, who farm their back yards for food be so willing to give to me who has individual guns the price of which would cover their rent for a year... I fancy myself as generous, but it has shown me I am generous only of my surplus while they are generous in their poverty, and joyful about it....

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[cycleguy2300]

I heard these two explosions, it rattled my windows and my hotel. I was within 5km of there earlier that day..

The text says:

️Rockets, explosions of which Kharkiv residents heard around 23:00 on June 16, hit Pisochyn.

Buildings and cars were damaged, no one was injured.

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[Havok1]

You do realize I have been in Ukraine for well over a month now and have seen the doom and gloom first hand... I am not the media, I am not the government.

I am the one taking the photos of what I see as I walk the cities in my spare time. They are not internet photos, they are what I am seeing.

I have seen with my own eyes where russia is using unguided anti-personal cluster munitions in areas where there are ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFIABLE MILITARY TARGETS, there is nothing but small shops and apartments.

The ONLY governmental building I have seen damaged was a State Government office in Kharkiv, about as much a military target as a county courthouse...

Kharkiv is a ghost town. Finding a restaurant is very difficult and the grocery stores are also few and far between, then when found haveblimited selection. I had some soft cheese and some cherry jam filled croissants for dinner the other day because it was pretty much all that I could find that didn't need to be cooked.

I have never met a kinder or more generous people than Ukrainians. They have sacrificed their food and privacy for me. Gone above and beyond to show me things, take me places, teach me words, make sure I am taken care of. It has been embarrassing to be so well off and have it so easy yet Ukrainians, who farm their back yards for food be so willing to give to me who has individual guns the price of which would cover their rent for a year... I fancy myself as generous, but it has shown me I am generous only of my surplus while they are generous in their poverty, and joyful about it....

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Yes I realize you are there, although I’m unsure your motivation for being there. You’re not the first person I have talked to who has been there and not everyone involved shares your opinion.

Glad they are nice. My point wasn’t to say that the Ukrainian population are bad people.

 

[kustik12]

Most Ukrainians are wonderful.

Ukrainian government sucks.

 

[Younggun]

Most Ukrainians are wonderful.

Ukrainian government sucks.

Maybe. But Russian gov is far worse in every way.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

They both suck!

Let them destroy each other.

Any cause FJB and his cronies are massively willing to give away our tax dollars for is not 'just' highly suspect...it stinks to high heaven.

Plus, r and it's one time satellite (u) and there war bickering is their business and absolutely none of ours...