Concealed Draw (Without one in the Chamber and with on in the chamber)

[ZX9RCAM]

/\/\....So, he had his pistol in the same pocket as his wallet, & no holster?

 

[#1gunner]

Whomever believes a firearm is useless without a round in the chamber is in a closed minded mindset. One that carries without a round chambered will never, never ever have a chance to ND. Watch your surroundings and 90% of the time you will be aware of a possible threat. Yes there is still that chance that you will be caught off guard. Im willing to take that chance and not worry about being delicate with the pistol holstering and unholstering. For instance this morning I was in a very bad neighborhood and chambered my ruger before I got out of the car. WHen I left, I unchambered and went about my business. Its just like "what gun should I get" question. Its what works best for you.

 

[Wolfwood]

Whomever believes a firearm is useless without a round in the chamber is in a closed minded mindset. One that carries without a round chambered will never, never ever have a chance to ND. .

Or you could jsut practice good trigger discipline and not worry about it.

What it boils down to is this - If you cant trust yourself to keep your finger off the trigger - dont put one in the hole.

If you can follow the rules of gun safety, there is no reason not to carry "cocked and locked" aside from personal preference.

In short - to avoid a negligent discharge - dont be negligent.

 

[willygene]

these people who are shooting them selves are morons that don't know how to handle loaded weapons. they probably fiddle **** around with the gun on a constant basis in there waistband or holster. i have seen these rambo wanabe morons at gun ranges, and walking around in town. if you know your weapon and carry the same every time it is safe with a round in the chamber. i have seen people go unloaded then put one in while in a bad area, then unload later. once again if you are always putting one in then taking it out you have a much greater chance of a discharge than simply carrying one in the chamber. i may be lucky but i know my weapons and in over twenty years i have never had a discharge while carrying or holstering.

 

[willygene]

im not closed minded, but an unloaded weapon is like breaking the blade off of a knife it's useless unless you want to beat someone with it, and thats not what it's intended for.

 

[#1gunner]

So you cant chamber a round and be ready 2 seconds before needed at times, ever?

 

[TheRealT-Dawg]

Is that what you used Saturday?
If so, it was a very nice holster.

yes sir it is! I specifically have it at their "concealment" kydex thickness, so its not as rigid as normal thickness, so im a bit hesitant when It comes to training with it but so far its awesome!

Run a threat threshold drill with both a loaded chamber and empty chamber.

If you are comfortable with not letting a threat get closer than your empty chamber distance, then you are good to go.

We ran this drill on both Saturday and Sunday as a demonstration, and it works out to about 20-25' for me to clear concealment, and put a single shot on paper. I think my distance would be 30+ feet if I had to chamber a round. Assuming my other hand is available to rack the slide. Make it 40' if I have to rack it off my heel, pocket, or thigh.

that was a good demo! gives you a more "realistic" view of your reaction time!

I just ordered the Comp tac Minotaur MTAC Holster, will be happy to post a review of it, the production time is 5 days. I am waiting on my CHL so time is not that big an issue. I also ordered a dress belt from the same folks and extra belt clips. I will carry with one in the pipe.

I heard good things about that holster, looking forward to your review!

I wish that were always true, but it's not. Ask any combat vet and they'll tell you of the guys they saw, firsthand, who either froze or reacted incorrectly when a firefight started. Ask any cop who's seen or witnessed the same thing. For that matter, I have better than half my life invested in one dojo or another and I've seen advanced belts freeze when violently accosted--and know one who is permanently damaged because while physically he was prepared to do battle, mentally he wasn't.

I would paraphrase your statement by saying your body will react how your MIND has trained it to react.

JD

+1 to that!

 

[#1gunner]

Or you could jsut practice good trigger discipline and not worry about it.

What it boils down to is this - If you cant trust yourself to keep your finger off the trigger - dont put one in the hole.

If you can follow the rules of gun safety, there is no reason not to carry "cocked and locked" aside from personal preference.

In short - to avoid a negligent discharge - dont be negligent.

If accidents never happen I would totally agree with this statement. No one ever purposely causes a ND. Its a personal choice like everything else so someone that chooses to be in the 0% catagory for chances of a accidental discharge should not get knocked for it. Coboblack gets the firearm out,chambered faster than most ever would think of simply pulling theirs chambered or not. I will say most are nowhere near as fast as his draw is so its a unique situation.

 

[Gramps]

Okay, I'll beat a dead horse a little more. Do what the F you're comfortable with. In chamber, out of chamber, no magazine loaded, knife, blackjack, etc. No one can tell you what to do, no one make you do anything. I'm going into a little righteous indignation here but dang it quit finding reasons why one way is better than another.

I have trained with two reputable organizations and sent nearly 1k rounds down range working from a holster and/or high ready without issue. I feel comfortable carrying with a round chambered and that is what I do. Quit asking questions if you don't like the answers. Its easy to admit I am not as experienced as others on this site but with training classes and a lot of time practicing on the range, I have time working with a loaded pistol in and out of the holster.

Again, DO WHAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH. Or just accept the answer and move on.

This is not directed to anyone specific. This thread has just gone way off track.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

After 5 pages, everybody should have decided how they want to carry their gun.
To each their own.....

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is really a matter of self-confidence. I personally do not care to support a person by effectively encouraging them to continue to lack self-confidence, and instead using a technique or device to effectively make up for the lack of self-confidence. I would much rather support a person by encouraging them and helping them gain more confidence in their abilities. Ultimately, I feel that is the best route to go as a confident person is a capable person. It is just not that damned difficult to keep fingers off the triggers when they shouldn't be.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Here's an example: "Because I could possibly run over a pedestrian, I will not drive a car anymore and instead choose to ride a bicycle." Why waste your time and make things considerably less effective, when you could simply LEARN to do it the right way instead?

 

[40Arpent]

...the right way...

What, or who, defines the "right way"? Personal choices come into play here. For me, the right way is being as well-prepared as you can for all possible circumstances. Some people just choose not to be.

 

[ROGER4314]

I didn't get my CHL so I could get into a firefight with a bad guy. I fact, God willing, I will never draw or use my little buddy. I spend a lot of time assessing where I go and when I go there to ensure that I'll stay out of that shxt. I don't go out late at night and if I need something at 2am, it will wait until morning.

My home has excellent locks that are reinforced in many ways, my dog is a wonderful sentry and I trust him totally. My neighborhood is armed and ready for intruders, we all know each other, have a tight Homeowners Association and look out for each other.

My point is this.....I'm not going to waste my time practicing to be Wyatt Earp. I spend most of my time and effort finding ways to avoid armed conflict. If something seems risky, I just don't go there. Being at a gin mill at 2am with inebriated people all round, in the dark with thieves and cutthroats everywhere is just by God stupid! Carrying a gun to protect yourself in that context is some of the worst tactical decision making possible. The best choice is not to be there in the first friggin' place!

I am NOT a cop and I'm not being paid to go looking for trouble. It is my JOB to stay out of trouble and I'm damned good at that! Am I a coward? If you knew me and my past, you'd know that's not true. I couldn't figure out why violence followed me everywhere I went. The problem wasn't "THEM", it was ME! I put myself into those scenarios. I went looking for the violence and I don't do that any more.

When my back is against the wall, there is no place to exit, the guy is aggressive and won't back off, he has brought the fight to me and I've exhausted every possible avenue to get out of the situation, then and only then will I draw and fire. My piece is loaded, chambered and ready for a last ditch stand.

That's my take on it.

Flash

 

[scap99]

So you cant chamber a round and be ready 2 seconds before needed at times, ever?

1.5 seconds = approximately 21' sprinted distance from a dead stop.

Another half second pushes that to around 30'. Assuming you are aware.




Sent without thinking via tapatalk.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I didn't get my CHL so I could get into a firefight with a bad guy. I fact, God willing, I will never draw or use my little buddy. I spend a lot of time assessing where I go and when I go there to ensure that I'll stay out of that shxt. I don't go out late at night and if I need something at 2am, it will wait until morning.

My home has excellent locks that are reinforced in many ways, my dog is a wonderful sentry and I trust him totally. My neighborhood is armed and ready for intruders, we all know each other, have a tight Homeowners Association and look out for each other.

My point is this.....I'm not going to waste my time practicing to be Wyatt Earp. I spend most of my time and effort finding ways to avoid armed conflict. If something seems risky, I just don't go there. Being at a gin mill at 2am with inebriated people all round, in the dark with thieves and cutthroats everywhere is just by God stupid! Carrying a gun to protect yourself in that context is some of the worst tactical decision making possible. The best choice is not to be there in the first friggin' place!

I am NOT a cop and I'm not being paid to go looking for trouble. It is my JOB to stay out of trouble and I'm damned good at that! Am I a coward? If you knew me and my past, you'd know that's not true. I couldn't figure out why violence followed me everywhere I went. The problem wasn't "THEM", it was ME! I put myself into those scenarios. I went looking for the violence and I don't do that any more.

When my back is against the wall, there is no place to exit, the guy is aggressive and won't back off, he has brought the fight to me and I've exhausted every possible avenue to get out of the situation, then and only then will I draw and fire. My piece is loaded, chambered and ready for a last ditch stand.

That's my take on it.

Flash

This post makes entirely too much sense! People can learn a lot from this.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

From what I've read of all this, as long as you have a quality holster (preferably hard material, like kydex) that covers the triggergaurd, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than having a ND in the holster.

And if you're scared of pulling the trigger when you draw, then you need to re-check your trigger discipline and maybe work on your draw technique.

Carrying your gun without a round in the chamber is just plain irresponsible.

 

[ROGER4314]

In the days just prior to getting my first CHL, my lady and I went to Walmart in Baytown at about 6pm. There was a Hell of a commotion in the parking lot as a good sized "brother" was being chased by 8 Walmart employees. I saw them go north then double back south towards us. As the guy was running towards us, I lined myself up with the row of cars he was running down and I said to my lady "Watch this!" When he got to me, I hit the guy as hard as I could and knocked him sideways onto the hood of a car traveling down the aisle. He got up, but the group of employees caught up to him and took him into custody.

At the end of it, the Walmart folks never even said "thanks" even though I stepped up and bagged the guy for them. When I asked what he was being arrested for, they wouldn't tell me, even after I put my ass on the line for them. After going into the store, I found out from a cashier that he was passing bad checks at a register, got fingered and ran off with 8 employees in hot pursuit.

Lesson learned...............I carry a pistol every day, all day. If I used that pistol to assist a retailer, I would open myself up to criminal or civil penalties. In the end, they won't appreciate it one bit. My gun is loaded, chambered and ready to draw and fire. I CHOOSE not to draw and fire to assist a retail store in apprehending an escaping felon. I CHOOSE not to fire if the man doesn't present a threat to me. The gun doesn't know any better. It is MY MIND that controls it and makes the decisions. The bullet in the chamber isn't going anywhere until I decide to launch it. That's how it is. That's how it should be.

Flash

 

[40Arpent]

Carrying your gun without a round in the chamber is just plain irresponsible.

Though I firmly believe in carrying chambered, your logic totally escapes me. In what way is it irresponnsible, and to whom? Is not carrying a weapon at all irresponsible?

 

[txinvestigator]

In the days just prior to getting my first CHL, my lady and I went to Walmart in Baytown at about 6pm. There was a Hell of a commotion in the parking lot as a good sized "brother" was being chased by 8 Walmart employees. I saw them go north then double back south towards us. As the guy was running towards us, I lined myself up with the row of cars he was running down and I said to my lady "Watch this!" When he got to me, I hit the guy as hard as I could and knocked him sideways onto the hood of a car traveling down the aisle. He got up, but the group of employees caught up to him and took him into custody.

At the end of it, the Walmart folks never even said "thanks" even though I stepped up and bagged the guy for them. When I asked what he was being arrested for, they wouldn't tell me, even after I put my ass on the line for them. After going into the store, I found out from a cashier that he was passing bad checks at a register, got fingered and ran off with 8 employees in hot pursuit.

Lesson learned...............I carry a pistol every day, all day. If I used that pistol to assist a retailer, I would open myself up to criminal or civil penalties. In the end, they won't appreciate it one bit. My gun is loaded, chambered and ready to draw and fire. I CHOOSE not to draw and fire to assist a retail store in apprehending an escaping felon. I CHOOSE not to fire if the man doesn't present a threat to me. The gun doesn't know any better. It is MY MIND that controls it and makes the decisions. The bullet in the chamber isn't going anywhere until I decide to launch it. That's how it is. That's how it should be.

Flash

Good decision. Escaping felons is not a justification for deadly force.