Car stops ~ but it NO GO

[Dawico]

Need to take it to someone who knows what they're doing, because if they screw up a job like this, it can destroy the engine.

I think you got this Glockster. Need to borrow some wrenches?

Hicksville here we come!

 

[alexrex20]

Excellent post by M. Sage. I just got off the phone with Glockster and he said he heard a loud CLACK when he started the car, before it struggled and ultimately ended with a no-start condition.

I thought failed tensioner and jumped chain as well. I hope his engine is not a interference* engine. M. Sage, any input on that?

 

[scap99]

Excellent post by M. Sage. I just got off the phone with Glockster and he said he heard a loud CLACK when he started the car, before it struggled and ultimately ended with a no-start condition.

I thought failed tensioner and jumped chain as well. I hope his engine is not a tolerance engine. M. Sage, any input on that?

I think Honda's are interference motors. :/

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk 2

 

[alexrex20]

Rut Roh!

 

[alexrex20]

I did a little Googling and it looks like the K20 in your Si is an interference engine. That means depending on how badly the timing chain slipped or failed, there could be bent valves, smashed pistons, or worse, in your future.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2055594

 

[Glockster69]

I'm gonna kick whoever's ass started this thread.

What does an interference motor mean to me, the newly broke end user?
I suppose this means don't turn over the engine to do a compression check but instead go straight to checking the chain, yes?

 

[scap99]

I'm gonna kick whoever's ass started this thread.

What does an interference motor mean to me, the newly broke end user?
I suppose this means don't turn over the engine to do a compression check but instead go straight to checking the chain, yes?

Valves drop down into the same space that the piston occupies at TDC. Timing keeps them from colliding and bending it all up.


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[Glockster69]

Valves drop down into the same space that the piston occupies at TDC. Timing keeps them from colliding and bending it all up.

Yea but they're like 5 or 6" apart right? I mean something really catastrophic would have to happen for them to come close to touching, right?

I really enjoy driving my little roller skate, hope it's not DOA.

 

[scap99]

Yea but they're like 5 or 6" apart right? Something really catastrophic would have to happen for them to come close to touching, right?

I really enjoy driving my little roller skate, hope it's not DOA.

If the chain jumped, broke, etc. all bets are off.


Sent from my iPhone using Magic.

 

[alexrex20]

I'm gonna kick whoever's ass started this thread.

What does an interference motor mean to me, the newly broke end user?
I suppose this means don't turn over the engine to do a compression check but instead go straight to checking the chain, yes?

Yea. But the damage is likely already done.

 

[alexrex20]

Yea but they're like 5 or 6" apart right? I mean something really catastrophic would have to happen for them to come close to touching, right?

I really enjoy driving my little roller skate, hope it's not DOA.

They're not even that far apart when they're at their furthest.

 

[Glockster69]

If the chain jumped, broke, etc. all bets are off.

I hear ya and obviously I was being facetious with tolerances but maybe, just maybe, since the clack happened at startup as opposed to 6500rpm, there's no or minimal damage. Hey, a guy can hope.

Yea. But the damage is likely already done.

No doubt.

BUT, it did drive that last mile. Struggling to be sure but NO abnormal sounds including metal on metal or additional clack sounds. Isn't that cause for a little hope?

I may as well ask, anyone have a car dolley I can borrow?

 

[Elbe]

Just send it to Sage to fix.

 

[M. Sage]

Excellent post by M. Sage. I just got off the phone with Glockster and he said he heard a loud CLACK when he started the car, before it struggled and ultimately ended with a no-start condition.

I thought failed tensioner and jumped chain as well. I hope his engine is not a interference* engine. M. Sage, any input on that?

Very possible that valves are bent, but as long as it only jumped a few teeth, there's a chance that they aren't.

And thank you for the compliment. I like to think I'm pretty good at what I do for a living.

I'm gonna kick whoever's ass started this thread.

What does an interference motor mean to me, the newly broke end user?
I suppose this means don't turn over the engine to do a compression check but instead go straight to checking the chain, yes?

Go to checking the timing. You might have to roll the engine over by hand to do it. You can also pull the spark plugs and look down at the tops of the pistons for silver crescents where the valves have hit the pistons. Most times, you can get away with a valve job, unless you're really unlucky and have a valve break off and put a hole in a piston... But, there's a good chance IMO that you only jumped time two-three links and the valves didn't wind up bent. The fact that it will actually start and die supports that, actually, since bent valves would give you no compression to get the mixture to ignite, and no seal to make that ignited mixture push pistons.

The fact that it sounds like it went on startup (common time since the cams are dry and the chain has more load on it) is good, too. If it'd gone out as you were getting on the freeway, I'd say the valves were probably toast.

 

[M. Sage]

I hear ya and obviously I was being facetious with tolerances but maybe, just maybe, since the clack happened at startup as opposed to 6500rpm, there's no or minimal damage. Hey, a guy can hope.


No doubt.

BUT, it did drive that last mile. Struggling to be sure but NO abnormal sounds including metal on metal or additional clack sounds. Isn't that cause for a little hope?

I may as well ask, anyone have a car dolley I can borrow?

Keep Uhaul in mind for the dolly. They're actually pretty reasonably priced. Just make sure that you use a big enough truck, or lie and tell them you're towing a 1992 Geo Metro. If their computer says the car is too heavy for the truck, they won't rent the dolly to you (BTDT).

 

[Glockster69]

Go to checking the timing. You might have to roll the engine over by hand to do it. You can also pull the spark plugs and look down at the tops of the pistons for silver crescents where the valves have hit the pistons. Most times, you can get away with a valve job, unless you're really unlucky and have a valve break off and put a hole in a piston... But, there's a good chance IMO that you only jumped time two-three links and the valves didn't wind up bent. The fact that it will actually start and die supports that, actually, since bent valves would give you no compression to get the mixture to ignite, and no seal to make that ignited mixture push pistons.

The fact that it sounds like it went on startup (common time since the cams are dry and the chain has more load on it) is good, too. If it'd gone out as you were getting on the freeway, I'd say the valves were probably toast.

I know you're being factual but at least that gives me some hope, except for this: Monday when the problem 1st occurred, it would start and die soon after. Tuesday forward it is a no start. Engine turns over at normal speed and no abnormal sounds though.

Yeah, Uhaul has my name on their list. Even gave me a free usage one time. You know, frequent flyer type thing

 

[M. Sage]

I know you're being factual but at least that gives me some hope, except for this: Monday when the problem 1st occurred, it would start and die soon after. Tuesday forward it is a no start. Engine turns over at normal speed and no abnormal sounds though.

Yeah, Uhaul has my name on their list. Even gave me a free usage one time. You know, frequent flyer type thing

Common for the engine to wind up flooded if you keep trying to start it with the timing jumped like this. Probably the issue... Worst case, pull the plugs and look for the silver crescents.

 

[Glockster69]

The nearest dealership said a leak down check could determine if the valves are damaged.
Yes/no? Is that something I can do?

$960 for chain, tensioner & gaskets
$300 of that is for parts

 

[alexrex20]

Yes the leakdown test is basically the same as a compression check.

 

[alexrex20]

The easiest way is to just pull the plugs, shine a light down into the combustion chamber and see if there are marks on the tops of the pistons. It will tell you real quick if the valves contacted the pistons. If no contact, the pistons will be nice and black.