150 Armed Militia take over Oregon Federal Building

[Mexican_Hippie]

Maybe I'm just a hippie, but I think the difference in mindset between being a "Peace Officer" and a "Law Enforcement Officer" is huge.

If you can escort someone to the Sheriff why not do it? I mean other than for your own ego?

 

[Younggun]

Maybe I'm just a hippie, but I think the difference in mindset between being a "Peace Officer" and a "Law Enforcement Officer" is huge.

If you can escort someone to the Sheriff why not do it? I mean other than for your own ego?

I don't disagree.


And the federal government has a colossal ego that it passes on to many of its employees.

Seems to follow at state and local levels as well.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[Younggun]

The entire situation was a powder keg waiting for a spark.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[Mreed911]

Hold them there and call for the Sheriff. That would have benefitted both sides.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

So, now who is at fault?

 

[Younggun]

State and federal both wanted to be in charge and "handle" the situation.

State seemed to be a little more sensible, assuming it was fed at the road block.


Bad decisions from both sides. Almost wonder if the protesters wanted it to go badly. Something to stir up support.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Protestors "initiated" everything.

Were they in the wrong to begin with?

 

[Younggun]

Protestors "initiated" everything.

Were they in the wrong to begin with?

They didn't have the support needed to achieve their goal, so I guess in the grand scheme, they were wrong.

On the level of principle, I can agree with them. But o still think they made a shit load of mistakes.


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[TheDan]

I'm censoring my language heavily in regards to my opinion of taking the kid with them.

You talking about that 18yo? I'll agree that the maturity level of the people involved was pretty low regardless of their actual age.

 

[Younggun]

I was going of the statement in the video that there was a "kid" in the car, and judged by her actions and commentary to be about 16.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[TheDan]

I was going of the statement in the video that there was a "kid" in the car, and judged by her actions and commentary to be about 16.

Yeah she is 18... Finicum was acting about 16, too.

I'm only critical of their actions because I think they have very valid concerns, and I am disappointed that they allowed themselves to be steered into turning it into a circus.

 

[bones_708]

The whole notion of using violence when a peaceful solution is possible is just a stupid idea. The dumbest possible of all ideas.

They were on their way to talk to the sheriff. Why not follow them and speak to them WITH the sheriff? That solution is only non-viable if your intent isn't really to resolve the situation but to show what happens when you disagree with government.

No, just no. They were not on their way to the sheriff until they were stopped. For all the State Police knew the whole sheriff thing was just a ruse so again no. Arresties don't get to decide crap but resist or not. There is no TALK. There weren't having a discussion they were being arrested. And lets not forget these guys were the ones to talk about and show off their guns. They were the ones who used the threat of violence to try and prevent arrest. So now they are 100% peaceful. You really think that people committing crimes get to decide who and how they get arrested? All in the name of peace right?

 

[bones_708]

What are you arguing about? I clearly state in what you quoted that he was trying to be a martyr, and that is a stupid thing to do.

Sorry your right. I just get worked up over the way some twist situations to try and justify their biases.

 

[bones_708]

It wasn't an ideal time - is exactly the point I'm making.

ETA: I'm not saying the guy who jumped out was making a smart move either. I'm simply saying there was a more peaceful path they could have taken but they chose not to.

Well I guess they could of just opened a jail cell door and sent a letter to the guys to take themselves over there but aside from that it seems like a pretty good time. In truth I think you are being purposely myopic. You absolutely can't know that your proposed method would have ended any better. They go armed, cus that's how they were rolling, to speak with the sheriff and he will say what? He can't stop the arrests. Fincum isn't going to decide he was wrong all along and suddenly give up. You are in an area with a much greater chance of bystanders. The idea that it is a better idea is absurd by any objective measure.

 

[bones_708]

Umm, no. they essentially did the same thing that was done at Waco. They could have escorted the truck to the sheriff and let the sheriff take them in custody. At Waco, the ATF could have let Koresh go into town for his usual weekly trip and had the locals arrest him (as they had done before without incident). But no, they had to go in guns blazing. And they cost a lot of people - including LEO's, women and kids - their lives.

No, just no. I mean come on. You don't escort. You have no way of knowing where they will go or what they will do. That would be criminally negligent behavior on the cops part.

It is exactly what people say should of happened at Waco. The police stayed away and got the people when they left their "base" which is what many said would have worked at Waco. Heck you just said it. You really think storming a compound is the same as making a traffic stop when the leadership is away from the area is the same as what was done at Waco? If so you're crazy. Oh! Somehow the State Police can't arrest if the bad guy says "Let me talk to the Sheriff". Call him from jail if you want to chat.

 

[zincwarrior]

Hold them there and call for the Sheriff. That would have benefitted both sides.

They tried that at the previous stop. When cornered the BG came out and went for his gun. End of story, no more no less.

Maybe I'm just a hippie, but I think the difference in mindset between being a "Peace Officer" and a "Law Enforcement Officer" is huge.

Agreed, however, I never met a peace officer who was on duty. I only met LEOs.

No, just no. I mean come on. You don't escort. You have no way of knowing where they will go or what they will do. That would be criminally negligent behavior on the cops part.

Indeed, I've never seen an instance where police "escorted" the vehicle of fleeing criminals. Chased them yes, but are there other common instances where police "escorted" a vehicle of armed criminals who were not under arrest?

 

[oldag]

No, just no. I mean come on. You don't escort. You have no way of knowing where they will go or what they will do. That would be criminally negligent behavior on the cops part.

It is exactly what people say should of happened at Waco. The police stayed away and got the people when they left their "base" which is what many said would have worked at Waco. Heck you just said it. You really think storming a compound is the same as making a traffic stop when the leadership is away from the area is the same as what was done at Waco? If so you're crazy. Oh! Somehow the State Police can't arrest if the bad guy says "Let me talk to the Sheriff". Call him from jail if you want to chat.

That is where something called judgement comes in. If these folks had wanted to shoot up the countryside, they would have already done so.

This was not a normal situation. A hammer is not the solution to every construction problem. There was plenty of time for law enforcement planning. No spur of the moment decision or snap judgement was necessary.

Heck, following your logic, why not just bomb the compound and kill them all? Get it over with.

Who said anything about comparing storming a compound to a traffic stop? You, not me.

 

[zincwarrior]

Again, please show evidence that police escort armed criminals running from the law. Key word here is armed.

 

[oldag]

Show me what forbids them from choosing to accompany them to the sheriff.

 

[Phoneguy]

A few things...

FBI Agents, with 8 years in, make $130k a year for a 50 hour work week.
The truck was initially shot at because the local FBI Division's (and maybe from other nearby Divisions) SWAT deemed their lives to be in danger with a vehicle coming towards their road block at a high rate of speed.
The protesters were suspected of violating Federal law hence the FBI's presence.
The Bureau of Land Management LEOs are considered the mall cop version of Federal law enforcement. Think Federal game warden/keystone cops. That's why the FBI took the lead.