2018 Midterm Results

[AustinN4]

This little bit of data analysis appears to indicate that Californication is, in fact, a thing.

We knew that.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Well you are right, it is not a photo ID. Your SSN is not to be used for identifying purposes but we all know how it works.

I CAN have it both ways. A state ID is not a National ID. We require ID to board planes, buy guns, get booze, but when it comes to voting, well heck no, we can't ask for ID? I am pretty sure we can teach poll workers how to identify a valid State ID. Do you not think so?

Not when you have states like CA handing out DL to illegals and other states not even hitting basic real ID requirements to get on a plane.

 

[Lunyfringe]

Perhaps.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/225056/americans-identification-independents-back-2017.aspx

Someone asked for a reference?
The largest group of Americans identify as independents.

Voting straight-party is, to me, a flaw, though the majority of Americans do.
Especially when it comes to judicial appointments that should be, in principle, non-partisan.
The Dems I voted for were mostly the judicial races and attorney general etc. DC/USA....I vote pure GOP. Local races have fine Dem candidates.

And yeah, the 2 party system is fundamentally flawed. It fosters an us vs them mentality. The point I was making about the Gallup results is that more people are fed up with this.

I don't blame them, and I don't blame straight ticket voters- they are just reacting in different ways to extremists on either side.

Judges SHOULD be non-partisan, but that's not reality. Just look at activist judges in circuit courts and the SCOTUS.

And in many elections, voting for an independent is just playing into a tactic used by one of the 2 parties. Case in point- Ross Perot is who really got Clinton elected in '92. The Democrats took notice, and now you'll see them back 3rd party candidates that are similar to the only opponent that has a chance against them.

There are lots of things wrong with politics, but one of the most basic is the 2 party system.

 

[sharkey]

Not when you have states like CA handing out DL to illegals and other states not even hitting basic real ID requirements to get on a plane.

Well CA is a pariah with a lot of issues besides handing out DL like candy. So beacuse some places don't do it correctly, you are for no ID at all? I think this is the 2nd time I asked. I lose track.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Lunyfringe]

Well CA is a pariah with a lot of issues besides handing out DL like candy. So beacuse some places don't do it correctly, you are for no ID at all? I think this is the 2nd time I asked. I lose track.

No ID at all for whom? People here illegally? Sure- one that's very clearly marked to signify they have no right to vote, to be employed, or to receive any public assistance until they at least start the process of citizenship.

The other issue is visa holders... they may need a DL while they are here- again, should be very clearly marked with their immigration status, and expire the same time their visa does.

But those things will never happen in states where one of the parties needs their votes... they'll claim it puts a "stigma" on them. That's a social issue, but should not be addressed by breaking a civil issue.

 

[AustinN4]

There are lots of things wrong with politics, but one of the most basic is the 2 party system.

And your solution is..............?

 

[Darqhelmet]

Well CA is a pariah with a lot of issues besides handing out DL like candy. So beacuse some places don't do it correctly, you are for no ID at all? I think this is the 2nd time I asked. I lose track.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Not at all what I said. I said you need a national standard Secure ID if you truly want voter fraud stopped. If every state is doing its own thing you’re screwed.

 

[Lunyfringe]

And your solution is..............?

I wish I had one- but my training and experience is in engineering. Likely any solution will have issues as well, but I don't agree with blaming people for voting one way or another within a system- the system IS the issue.

 

[satx78247]

To All,

Btw,

2018 was the LAST time that anyone can vote "straight ticket" in Texas.

yours, satx

 

[Brains]

Not at all what I said. I said you need a national standard Secure ID if you truly want voter fraud stopped. If every state is doing its own thing you’re screwed.

I'm genuinely curious why you would believe that? Because it's a patently false statement.

I'm not saying this is the most secure method, but we'll use it for arguments' sake due to its simplicity. Say we identify everyone with a cryptographically secure certificate. The state issues the certificates to each voter based on their own private key. The voter then casts a ballot which is then signed with their certificate. This provides the ability for the state to identify each voter, as they have the private key. This allows the fed to validate the voter and the ballot but they cannot identify, as they only have each state's public key. In the event of a move across state lines, the certificate can be quickly and easily revoked via revocation lists.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Say we identify everyone with a cryptographically secure certificate.

That’s a neatly engineered solution. Think about the failure modes and how they would be addressed.

 

[Darqhelmet]

I'm genuinely curious why you would believe that? Because it's a patently false statement.

I'm not saying this is the most secure method, but we'll use it for arguments' sake due to its simplicity. Say we identify everyone with a cryptographically secure certificate. The state issues the certificates to each voter based on their own private key. The voter then casts a ballot which is then signed with their certificate. This provides the ability for the state to identify each voter, as they have the private key. This allows the fed to validate the voter and the ballot but they cannot identify, as they only have each state's public key. In the event of a move across state lines, the certificate can be quickly and easily revoked via revocation lists.

Let’s see.

Cost
General public stupidity
Lost passwords
Simple passwords
Forgotten passwords
Lack of understanding of technology at the polling place
Network outages

You are not training, teaching, or giving an understanding to the GP about salted crypto hashes and if they don’t trust they system it doesn’t work. Everyone understands what an ID card is. Why are you against the standard secure photo ID?

A standard secure ID. Hell make it literally for voting only, the states can keep doing what ever they like with state ID/DL/etc.

 

[Brains]

That’s a neatly engineered solution. Think about the failure modes and how they would be addressed.

If we're getting down to brass tacks, PKI isn't sufficient.

 

[Brains]

Let’s see.

Cost
General public stupidity
Lost passwords
Simple passwords
Forgotten passwords
Lack of understanding of technology at the polling place
Network outages

You are not training, teaching, or giving an understanding to the GP about salted crypto hashes and if they don’t trust they system it doesn’t work. Everyone understands what an ID card is. Why are you against the standard secure photo ID?

A standard secure ID. Hell make it literally for voting only, the states can keep doing what ever they like with state ID/DL/etc.

Cost: Significantly cheaper than physical voting.
General public stupidity: Different than now, how?
Lost/Simple/Forgotten passwords: A properly implemented system does not rely on passwords at all. A poorly implemented one would.
Lack of understanding of tech at polling place: Polling places would become ghost towns, and staff could easily assist. Most voting would be done on personal devices.
Network outages: Honestly that is the least of your worries. Properly implemented there's no need for real-time network access at all.

 

[AustinN4]

I say we implant everyone with a chip! There, that'll fix it! (sarcasm, in case you needed help in identifying it)

 

[Darqhelmet]

Cost: Significantly cheaper than physical voting.
General public stupidity: Different than now, how?
Lost/Simple/Forgotten passwords: A properly implemented system does not rely on passwords at all. A poorly implemented one would.
Lack of understanding of tech at polling place: Polling places would become ghost towns, and staff could easily assist. Most voting would be done on personal devices.
Network outages: Honestly that is the least of your worries. Properly implemented there's no need for real-time network access at all.

So you don’t trust them with Id’s but think the gov could pull this off? Wow, okay so back in reality where the OPM loses unencrypted laptops with full databases on them and gets hacked regularly you want to use Public Key encryption to allow people to vote from their phones that they lose all the time. Please share what ever you are it’s been a long week.

What’s your fear of a national standard on a physical ID?

 

[Darqhelmet]

I say we implant everyone with a chip! There, that'll fix it! (sarcasm, in case you needed help in identifying it)

Who says we haven’t been chipped already!?

(Playing along Incase people are not picking it up, I will also use LOL)

 

[Brains]

So you don’t trust them with Id’s but think the gov could pull this off? Wow, okay so back in reality where the OPM loses unencrypted laptops with full databases on them and gets hacked regularly you want to use Public Key encryption to allow people to vote from their phones that they lose all the time. Please share what ever you are it’s been a long week.

What’s your fear of a national standard on a physical ID?

You perhaps missed the part where I said PKI is insufficient. I merely used it as a simpler, more easy to understand example of how it's concretely possible.

Breaking it down to simple block-diagram requirements, what you need is a separate methods to identify, authenticate, and authorize. A national (among other) level ability to identify is bad, for what should be obvious reasons. It is pretty well accepted by most that voting should be done in private, and the vote <--> voter match kept, for all intents and purposes, "secret". That's why you have a wall or privacy curtain around you at the polling places, right? Pretty easy to agree on. You likewise don't want the pols having access to know who voted for which candidates. So that's why I "fear" (poor choice of word, but I'll play) a national standard on a physical ID - it presents privacy challenges that aren't easily rectified. If what you mean is a national standard physical card or device to store the crypto token, heck that could be a global standard (e.g. ISO 7816 for "Smart Cards", but I'm not saying use Smart Cards FYI). The distinction for me is who holds the keys to the castle, so to speak. That can not and should not be the federal gov't. To address the laptops going missing and such, again -- properly implemented, you simply would not care because the data would be useless within the lifetime of the computing power available to crack it.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Youre assuming you have to use the ID in the booth. I am saying us it to verify you are who you say you are and then go vote. But they checked me in with a barcode and RFID key go vote this time. So pretty sure the vote and voter separate ship has sailed.

You have way more faith in the technical abilities of the .gov for voting and yes if they used proper encryption on the laptops it would be great. But people are lazy and security is hard, so go to the least common not the tech elite. You are using words that I would guess 80% or more of people have zero idea what they mean, much less how they work. Sell that to the GP over a hey you check in with this ID.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Hell setting the requirements to get ID to the same as getting a passport would be a HUGE step forward. We can’t even do that and you want a full encryption system that allows voting from a personal phone.