A CHL question

[Glockster69]

 

[txinvestigator]

Man, I cannot have popcorn anymore.

 

[Glockster69]

LoL. Had a guy that worked for me and EVERY morning, 5 days a week around 930-10 o'clock he'd pop a bag filling the office with the aroma. I rarely eat breakfast and it's too early for lunch

 

[Younggun]

Read through the thread and figure I will put my .02. I have also have 2 kids and many guns in my home.

I understand why the OP is OK with the guest and not the gun, don't agree, but understand. He is not comfortable with gun in general and for some that has nothing to do with the character of the person carrying it.

My take on the situation: How uncomfortable are you with the gun? Is it enough to ask him to leave your house? If so you can do that. I think you and your spouse should discuss it and decide what you want to do.

He was not required to tell you he had his gun but you are not required to let him stay there and no, you don't have to post 30.06 signs to make him leave.

How would you feel if the gun were locked in a small safe? I don't know exactly where you stand or how much fear you have of guns but ultimately it your house so it's your choice who can be there and what they can bring in. You and your wife need to sit down and talk with him and his. I believe as a guest in your home he should be respectful of your wishes. If it turns out to be more than he is willing to do he should find somewhere else to stay.

I hope that an agreement can be reached and I feel that asking that he lock the gun in a safe would be reasonable for both sides.

I also hope that you get to a range some time and take the time to learn more about firearms and possibly change your mind about firearms. I truly believe education concerning guns would wash away many of your fears.

 

[TX69]

Bet your opinion would change if he saved you and your family's lives with his CHL and firearm.

 

[Bithabus]

I didn't know if it applied to private residences or not. I've actually never paid it any mind.

30.06 can apply to a private residence, but as TI stated the house would legally be the premises of both the owner and the guests and the guest would not be carrying on the authority of his CHL.

 

[Bithabus]

Actually, no. The visitor is a guest in their home, and as such there's no contractural arrangement vis-a-vis landlord/tenant.

Actually, yes. If you let someone spend the night in your home then your home temporarily becomes his premises.

 

[Pyrogenic]

Premises you control would likely be one that you are in temporary or permanent ownership of (responsibility for). I don't think sharing someone's home falls in that category, but I think that point is moot. If the owner of the homestead property is uncomfortable, he has the right to protect his own home and family any way he feels is right, which would include restricting the gun from being there, if that was important to him. The owner gets to make that call, right?

If he was in business of renting he could make that call too, but would have to post the legal notice, I bet, to get away with it.

But if I let someone into my home, with my kids, for a few months' time, I better have some level of trust beyond stranger status. And if he has a CHL he is surely somewhat trustworthy, so I would be cool with it. I don't think it would be out of the question to have a safety discussion with him about securing the weapon though, if it made you uncomfortable. If that discussion upset the guy, I wouldn't want him in my home anyway...

 

[txinvestigator]

Premises you control would likely be one that you are in temporary or permanent ownership of (responsibility for). I don't think sharing someone's home falls in that category, but I think that point is moot. If the owner of the homestead property is uncomfortable, he has the right to protect his own home and family any way he feels is right, which would include restricting the gun from being there, if that was important to him. The owner gets to make that call, right?

If he was in business of renting he could make that call too, but would have to post the legal notice, I bet, to get away with it.

I get your thinking, but 30.06 is not applicable to renting or living free.


the homeowner can always refuse to let the man live there.

 

[Bithabus]

Premises you control would likely be one that you are in temporary or permanent ownership of (responsibility for). I don't think sharing someone's home falls in that category.

PC 46.02 does not require control over the premises. In any case, I disagree that a person staying in your house for several months has no control over the property. If you give him a key he has control.

If the owner of the homestead property is uncomfortable, he has the right to protect his own home and family any way he feels is right, which would include restricting the gun from being there, if that was important to him. The owner gets to make that call, right?

No. If the owner doesn't want the visitor to have a gun he has to tell him he can't stay.

If he was in business of renting he could make that call too, but would have to post the legal notice, I bet, to get away with it.

There is no such legal notice.

 

[Pyrogenic]

Well, according to guy at the CHL class, there is. And an employer can make the rule on their property. A homeowner most certainly can limit firearms on their property. Of this I have no doubt. If he carrier doesn't agree he can find another place to live or the property owner can choose to allow it.

Gun rights are important. Property owners rights are more important and are supported regarding CHL laws. The CHL doesn't trump property rights.

 

[txinvestigator]

Well, according to guy at the CHL class, there is.

I am a CHL instructor. I am willing to wager the question about staying at someone else's house never came up in your class. You are speculating based on only the limitied information you received in class based on a narow set of circumsrtances.

And an employer can make the rule on their property.

Yes. they can. That has nothing to do with living in a house.

A homeowner most certainly can limit firearms on their property. Of this I have no doubt.

Of course he can. However, the homeowner cannot restrict someone who is living there under 30.06.

If he carrier doesn't agree he can find another place to live or the property owner can choose to allow it.

That is exactly correct, and what we have been telling you. In this situation, the guest could not be charged with trespass by a license holder if the homeowner allows the guest to live in the house, and the guest brings his handgun.

Gun rights are important. Property owners rights are more important and are supported regarding CHL laws. The CHL doesn't trump property rights.

No one says they do. When I live somewhere I get property rights. Under 30.06 a hotel cannot tell you to not carry in your room, a apartment cannot make it unlawful for you to carry in your apartment, and a homeowner cannot make it unlawful for anyone living there to carry.

 

[Pyrogenic]

We agree I am speculating for purposes of this discussion, since no one is sure of how property rights pertain to a non-contracted guest. My guess is that unless there is a contract, no one other than the property owner has property rights, unless the property owner gives it to them. I could be wrong. Probably need a lawyer for this one. But here's a guy who wants to know if he should feel comfortable enough to raise the discussion, and I think he has the right to do so.

I think it's based on 'homestead'. If he were contracting for rent (control), that rentable space would not be his 'homestead' (by law). Since he's not doing that, all the space is his homestead, and (in my speculation) not in 'control' of the guest.

 

[txinvestigator]

We agree I am speculating for purposes of this discussion, since no one is sure of how property rights pertain to a non-contracted guest. My guess is that unless there is a contract, no one other than the property owner has property rights, unless the property owner gives it to them. I could be wrong. Probably need a lawyer for this one. But here's a guy who wants to know if he should feel comfortable enough to raise the discussion, and I think he has the right to do so.

The law does not use the phrase (contracted peoperty) If you live somewhere, rather temporary or not, it is your premises.

I think it's based on 'homestead'.

On what do you base that conclusion?

If he were contracting for rent (control), that rentable space would not be his 'homestead' (by law). Since he's not doing that, all the space is his homestead, and (in my speculation) not in 'control' of the guest.

None of that is in the law. This is just all become an exercise in futility, as you are just grabbing at straws to make your case.

Good day.

 

[WBrown999]

 

[Pyrogenic]

Wow - discussions are so much fun here.

 

[Pyrogenic]

And by the way, if you set up part of your property for rent, you can NOT claim exemption for homestead. I'm supposing that's the only way you end up turning over 'control' of the space to someone else. And I'm SPECULATING that as I said before. Jeez - cant you debate without being so jerky about it?? If you want to claim proof them do so, but get off your frigging ego! Damn guys....

 

[txinvestigator]

And by the way, if you set up part of your property for rent, you can NOT claim exemption for homestead. I'm supposing that's the only way you end up turning over 'control' of the space to someone else. And I'm SPECULATING that as I said before. Jeez - cant you debate without being so jerky about it?? If you want to claim proof them do so, but get off your frigging ego! Damn guys....

Homestead has nothing to do with it. There is no debate here. The penal code has nothing to do with tax laws nor landlord tenent laws.

Asking questions is fine, stating things as fact when they are not because you "feel it", or "believe" it with no basis in fact is not.
Jerky? I prefer beef.

 

[V-Tach]

Ah yes, the internal survival instinct.....whether verbal or physical...........stronger with some than others. Sound Familiar?

I have been following this thread with interest and TXI presents fact and logic to the discussion.

You don't want someone to have guns on your property? Don't let them live there. That's your option. 30.06 does not apply, imho, of course.......

 

[Bithabus]

Well, according to guy at the CHL class, there is.

There is your problem. Many CHL instructors have no idea what they are talking about.

And an employer can make the rule on their property.

We are talking about a long term guest in a home not a work place.

A homeowner most certainly can limit firearms on their property.

Not absolutely.

If he carrier doesn't agree he can find another place to live or the property owner can choose to allow it.

This is correct. The owner can force the guest to leave. What the owner cannot do is allow the guest to stay while prohibiting him from possessing a firearm.