A Very Exciting Development. Long thread warning, but definitely worth the read!

[Charlie]

Real problem is he is more impressed with his own IQ then anyone else is.

I think ............................ this^^^^^^

 

[Younggun]

Y'all's just a bunch of demo commie who's-a-what's-it's.

 

[57K]

It is easier to obtain American made powders than foreign stuff.

There isn't a company doing business in the USA that doesn't have a team of lawyers trying to protect them from stupid lawsuits. It's not "lying" to make sure that your load data doesn't put you in court. Companies don't like this one bit better than we do, but it's a reality.

You want to give away Varget? I'll take it! Good stuff! Clean, consistent; I fail to see anything wrong.

Your "encyclopedia brain dump" is honestly not helpful. "You may remember when..."? Honestly, most of us don't. We have a limited number of loads and calibers to work with and we focus on that. It comes across as rambling. Give us comparative test data or something tangible that we can comprehend and we'll gladly discuss it. As others pointed out, you left no room - and no points - for discussion.

As for "demo-commies", I think the only reason they haven't renamed the party is because the actual Communist Party doesn't want people to think they're associated with Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc. and would probably sue.

What American made powders would those be? There's only 1 commercial powder manufacturer in the US, St Marks in Florida, formerly Primex. They make spherical powders for just about every brand that you consider "American." Most of Hodgdon's extruded and the IMR powders come from Canada with Varget coming from Australia.

It wasn't a brain dump by any stretch of your imagination. If you think it wasn't helpful to YOU, why post at all. I can tell you that is a help to people with brains according to my PM inbox.

Give us comparative test data or something tangible that we can comprehend and we'll gladly discuss it. As others pointed out, you left no room - and no points - for discussion.

Read much? I've already listed the comparative test data which are the NobelSport/Vectan & current Lapua/Vihta Vouri manuals, both of which can be downloaded. I also asked for some one to corroborate and instead, I get snipes from Austin Libtards that decided to carry over their diaper rash from the political subforum.

Honestly, some of you guys really need to consider an exercise program. It will help you get oxygen to the brain.

At least we agree on the demo-commies. Maybe the communists would object if we called democrats communist, and BTW, they are at present trying to change the first amendment to prevent organizations like the NRA and even private citizens from openly criticizing them. The reason I use the term demo-commie is because it's actually a hybrid of capitalism and communism. The Chinese and Russians have already figured out that communism on its own doesn't quite get there.

If I could choose a title for them it would be the Anti-Christ party! Nancy Pelosi is a devout Catholic, she thinks, while her faith is vehemently Pro Life. Charles Schumer shows up for Netanyahu's speech to show that he's a good Hebrew, while evidently not understanding the Law given to Moses in stone!

 

[Younggun]

Don't sweat it 57. Just a bunch of demo comie satan worshipers who've never done anything for this country or this state and don't know what it means to craft a round with their own hands trying to kill your shitty thread.

Don't let them. Stay strong, no matter how unimportant you really are. I BELIEVE IN YOU!

 

[57K]

Don't sweat it 57. Just a bunch of demo comie satan worshipers who've never done anything for this country or this state and don't know what it means to craft a round with their own hands trying to kill your shitty thread.

Don't let them. Stay strong, no matter how unimportant you really are. I BELIEVE IN YOU!

Why don't you just get over your diaper rash and come out of the closet? You and your buddies really ought to have your posts deleted because you insisted in carrying over something here because you didn't like getting exposed in the political section, even while you helped do it! LOL! You made it plain that somehow you think you're a conservative democrat while that concept is as dead as Lloyd Benson and a complete oxymoron.

Actually, you're starting to become my favorite 2nd amendment parasite on this forum. Apparently, your followers consider you parasite #1!

 

[Younggun]

Your powers of observation are.....extraordinary.

Once again, you've nailed it.

 

[57K]

Okay, I'm sure you're right. So here's some advice: get into therapy for your thread/post stalking issues lest people figure out that you're a chickenshit troll!

 

[Brains]

 

[Younggun]

Okay, I'm sure you're right. So here's some advice: get into therapy for your thread/post stalking issues lest people figure out that you're a chickenshit troll!

Who, me?

I'm not a troll, I'm a path to enlightenment.

I'm not burdened by conservative values, and longing to give back to my country or my state, and have never been tainted by the urge to hand load my own ammunition. I'm free to see the bigger picture.

I will teach you, and you shall be better for it.

 

[noylj]

Pressure stability: To me, that means that the powder produces few if any pressure spikes and has a low SD with respect to velocity.
I know that when I load light charges of TiteGroup, Clays, and N310, I get maybe three rounds out of ten with weighed charges, that have a harsher recoil than the rest. Things calm down a bit as I load up.
I know that Bullseye, Solo 1000, and Red Dot do not do this. They are what I call "well behaved" powders--very linear and very repeatable recoil feeling from round to round.
It may not be science, but that is what I feel when shooting any way.

 

[57K]

Noylj, that's not at all unusual. I don't and will not ever use TiteGroup, but I won't say that it can not be used in low pressure cartridges like .45 ACP, .45 Colt and .38 Special. The problem is when loaded in cartridges above 30,000 PSI, it's not so well behaved and near 35,000 PSI in 9 X 19mm or the .40 S&W, Hopefully not .357 Magnum, Not only does TiteGroup burn hotter than any other powder (which can be confirmed with the QuickLoad program), it's proven to be erratic and associated with more Ka-Booms in .40 S&W than any other powder. When reloaders post on how great a powder TiteGroup is, it becomes apparent that they're unaware of these issues, and worse, they're recommending it and other fast burning powders that can be double-charged without close observation. Observing powder charges is an absolute necessity yet we know double-charges occur every day. Always due to a fast or very fast burning low volume powder that can be double-charged or even triple-charged in some cases.

You didn't start out handloading a year ago, so what you load is totally up to you and other experienced handloaders. But, those who recommend them every time the question of "what powder is best" comes up, those recommending TiteGroup have more experience in pulling a lever than they do in the chemical make-up of gunpowder.

You mentioned Solo 1000, and it is a SINGLE-BASED flake powder. I've never used it, but I would in a pinch for light loads in .45 ACP. I don't consider Spain to be a mecca of gunpowder manufacturing like Belgium, France, Sweden and Finland, but evidently it's good enough to wear the Accurate label.

Double-based propellants vary in pressure stability for a number of reasons and that is controlled by several methods, one being fine granules and high bulk density Sphericals as in the case of True Blue or AA#5 & #7. You don't have to be a rocket scientist or have a degree in chemical engineering to understand that powders made without a need to include Nitroglycerin will be more pressure stable than their double-based counterparts. Vectan also makes Single-Based flake powders for those who like them. With HODGDON discontinuing IMR SR 7625 & 4756, that's significant in itself.

As far as new handloaders, it is much more prudent to recommend powders to them that are known for pressure stability and case fill high enough that a double-charge will overflow the case. Kinda hard to overlook it then. Telling them to start with TiteGroup?

One powder that has been in the Vectan line-up longer is Ba 9, a SINGLE-BASED fine cut extruded that can be used in loads where Unique might typically be used. Anyone who keeps up with Comp. shooting should be well aware that no powder is held as high in regard as V-V N320 for cast loads just above 165 PF. Ba 9 1/2 is the Vectan equivalent and $10 less expensive at Grafs who is the importer fro NobelSport/Vectan. Is that not newsworthy? Maybe not for morons, which hopefully the vast majority of handloaders ARE NOT.

V-V N350 is excellent in high pressure loads from 9 - 10mm to include .357 SIG and it can be used in .357 Magnum defense loads while losing less velocity from shorter barrels than Magnum propellants, and without nearly the muzzleblast. Ba 7 1/2 is the equivalent, and again, $10 less at Graf's.

Wiley Clapp once did a .357 Magnum report using very warm loads with a Freedom Arms 353. N110 consistently gave the best accuracy while providing the highest velocity. Important for some of us who handload hunting rounds for revolvers. Ba 6 1/2 is the Vectan equivalent, and it DOES NOT require a Magnum pistol primer. Also $10 less at Graf & Sons.

 

[Younggun]

It's a bad powder because people use it wrong. It's never the persons fault.

That's the attitude of a liberal. You sir, are a liberal. Possibly even a democommie. Yuk.

 

[57K]

It's a bad powder because people use it wrong. It's never the persons fault.

That's the attitude of a liberal. You sir, are a liberal. Possibly even a democommie. Yuk.

No dumbass, it can be proven. It is in fact one of the hottest burning handgun powders in existence. And, if you had a brain, you'd know that as pressure increases, so does heat of explosion where TiteGroup becomes erratic.

But by all means help YOURself to large quantities!

 

[Younggun]

Hush liberal.

 

[scap99]

Aside from the bullshit trolls working overtime, I appreciated the read.

N320 is like the fountain of youth.
The fact that you found something remotely close to it is fascinating.

Thank you

 

[57K]

Hush liberal.

Hey, you're the admitted demo-commie and 2nd amendment parasite.

I've made it quite clear that I support the Tea Party and why I know that the GOP is NOT the same as the DEMO-COMMIE PARTY you belong to. That is clear to see by anyone who wants to go to the political subforum and read for themselves. It's your sole motivation in trying to disrupt this thread.

Still haven't changed that soggy diaper?

 

[Younggun]

I have no issue trolling someone who chooses to attack me on the forum and accuse me without knowing me, and lying about who I am or what I've done.


I have zero respect for that and consider him dirt. If there is more issue with it, if happily PM you the details.

Men don't do what he did and I'd rather troll him than get banned for saying what I really think.

 

[57K]

Aside from the bullshit trolls working overtime, I appreciated the read.

N320 is like the fountain of youth.
The fact that you found something remotely close to it is fascinating.

Thank you

My pleasure. It's a pity that someone with an axe to grind finds it necessary to try and disrupt a thread that had nothing to do with exposing him for what he is in the political section. And to prove just how moronic he is, he continues to post irrelevant bullshit. I have no doubt he'll continue to follow the liberal patern of his demo-commie overlords.

 

[BKDinTexas]

I'm one of thise assholes who quit after Unique. Why? It does what I need it to do. I load medium velocity loads with hard cast bullets for wheel guns. Unique is consistent, accurate, versatile for the calibers I load, and usually readily available. I too have an extensive engineering background and fairly extensive hydraulics knowledge. Just not very experimental, and I reload to shoot, not shoot to reload. Now I would like to hear more about 357 short magnums. Thise sound interesting to a wheel gunner like me.

 

[57K]

I'm one of thise assholes who quit after Unique. Why? It does what I need it to do. I load medium velocity loads with hard cast bullets for wheel guns. Unique is consistent, accurate, versatile for the calibers I load, and usually readily available. I too have an extensive engineering background and fairly extensive hydraulics knowledge. Just not very experimental, and I reload to shoot, not shoot to reload. Now I would like to hear more about 357 short magnums. Thise sound interesting to a wheel gunner like me.

Just so we're clear, I haven't called anyone who loads with Unique an asshole. Since you're an engineer, the differences between powders made with Nitrocellulose ONLY, vs. powders made of Nitrocellulose with Nitroglycerin added (DOUBLE-BASED) should speak for itself.

I've fired a good many "medium-magnum" revolver loads charged with Unique. Never quite understood the fascination with a dirty powder that gives mediocre accuracy. That standard I judge from my hunting loads producing 1" or less for 6 rounds at 25 yards. There are a number of good choices that range between #5 & #7 on the various burn-rate charts.

Unique was superseded long ago, but since so many handloaders of my generation were told that it's the 1 powder for all things, rumors persist. The facts can be proven and in this particular case, True Blue burns cleaner, is far more uniform and pressure stable and can be used to produce handloads uo to factory velocity level, WITHOUT NEARLY AS MUCH FLASH! Try loading the 5.7 X 28mm or the 7.62 X 25mm Tokarev with Unique and see what you get? True Blue as an OEM powder was sold to FNH for their factory 5.7 X 28mm loads.

How did the .357 Short Magnum come about? Simple! For reloading hands in my age group it's common knowledge that S&W revolvers with barrel lengths under 3" have a shorter ejector rod that might not extract magnum loads. After it was first introduced, my shooting partner bought a 7-shot Taurus Tracker in .357 Magnum and the first time he attempted to shoot 125 gr. JHP factory loads, they wouldn't extract.

Do you know the Max pressure rating for the .38 Super +P? It's 36,500 PSI and in .357 Magnum revolvers that will chamber them completely, they're safe to fire. I was also aware of a Cor-Bon .38 Special load rated +P that used a 9mm JHP. At the time, I had REM .355" 124 gr. JHPs coming out the wazoo, so I tried to replicate what Cor-Bon had done with a 115 gr. JHP. It can be done, but several steps will have to be added. You've probably also seen someone state that there's no difference between .357 Magnum and .38 Sp. cases. I know otherwise. With .38 Sp. cases you will need to undersize when you resize, and even then a .38 or .357 expander plug may prevent them from giving adequate case-neck tension. The solution I found was to trim .357 Magnum cases down to .38 Sp. length. The .38 Super is even shorter.

Theoretically, there's no reason the short magnums couldn't be loaded to 35,000 PSI. The same as current SAAMI spec for .357 Magnum while the .38 Super is allowed 36,500 PSI. There are differences and both the 9 X 19mm and the .40 S&W share the same 35,000 PSI rating. The 9 X 19mm is another thread. But, 35,000 PSI is not always equal. With short auto-loading rounds, pressure ratings in CUP will be lower than PSI. i.e., the 9 X 19mm is rated 35,000 PSI/33,000 CUP. The .357 Magnum is currently rated 35,000 PSI but the CUP value is considerably higher when the same load is tested in the 2 different systems.

Maybe it's overstated for handgun loads, but the higher the powder charge, the higher recoil you can expect. A .357 Short Magnum has considerably less unused case capacity combined with lower charge-weights. Magnum powders are not req'd, meaning you can move ahead on the burn rate chart to powders that will produce equal velocity from the shorter barreled revolvers common to concealed carry. Plus, these powders give much less muzzle-blast/flash. AA#7 is a good example, and the best I've used personally is Ramshot True Blue.