Ar-15

[NJ-TNP'r]

Hey guys, I decided that I would start an AR-15 thread and I haven't seen anyone like I want to post. So here we go, I think that the AR-15 is probably one of the best guns out there. It has one of the best designs ever and is far superior to any rifle of it's kind out there. It's one of the few guns that can adapt to ANY purpose you can think of. Sound off on what you think down below.

 

[Eli]

Just because you can make anything out of it doesn't mean it's any good. It was, even when adopted, an inferior design.

Eli

 

[robin303]

I pretty much agree. I had the M-16A2 in Army Basic Trng. I would like a standard M-4 but have no use for one.

 

[NJ-TNP'r]

Just because you can make anything out of it doesn't mean it's any good. It was, even when adopted, an inferior design.

Eli

The design has been updated and the initial flaws dealt with. Really the only way to go is another caliber, all you got to do is pin it on and you are good to go.

 

[SPCHardin]

What do you mean, "Pin it on"?

 

[NJ-TNP'r]

What do you mean, "Pin it on"?

All ya gotta do is put a new upper on it. Then you're all set.

 

[tweek]

I think the problems with the rifle have been overblown. Then again, I've never been in a situation where my life depended upon it.
The initial issues were a result of somebody screwing around with the ammo. There were also issues like twist rate, bullet size (grain) and general practices around maintenance and lubicration.

Most of the issues today come down to this: engagements beyond 500 meters are simply outside the 223's effective range. There is also the generally feeling that a 223 bullet won't DRT targets. I think this has more to do with ammo selection than the actual bullet. I would think that a 223 HP will drop a man at 300 meters just a well as 308 HP. Dead is dead. However, a 223 FMJ will provide nice cooling ventalation holes without necassarily delivering an kill. A 308 FMJ...no idea people don't really talk about it so I'm left guessing.

As for jamming up: the wisdom now is to run it wet. The AR15 requires daily cleaning whether you run it wet or not. I've buried mine at the range and will still do a mag dump. Yeah - the dirt was fun to clean off, but it actually came off pretty easily b/c of the CLP it was stuck on with.

The AK47 for all of it's supposed greatness really isnt a better rifle. It's just cheaper. In many cases a lot cheaper. It's effective range is around 200 yards. No I wouldnt stand around with somebody shooting at me from 500 yards, but it won't be accurate fire and the round won't be going nearly as fast (ability to deliver force on impact) when it arrives. The 223 is a better bullet. Then again, I've never been shot by either so I can't compare and contract. This is all based on range cards.

One thing to ponder - despite the supposed dislike for the rifle we keep using. The military has tried several times now to find an alternative. Nothing has stepped up. In fact over and over despite various issues it keeps coming up as the best bang for the buck. Look at the SCAR & ACR. Both are considerably more expensive than the GI Spec M16. In many ways they are probably much better, but I don't think either really delivers a better value.

I just don't see the Stoners creation going away anytime soon. Frankly, when we start colonizing other planets it would not surprise me if the Marines landing on the ground are carrying M4s.

 

[AusTex]

have you ever shot a .223 in a 10-15-20 mph wind past 300 yards? I like what you are doing here bud but this is a dedicate gun board and you are talking to people that shoot, build, and some that have protected their own and our lives with these guns. My point is most of us have a lot of experience with the system and some have incredibly strong feelings about them for reasons I just stated. I have built 20+ ar-15s and own 5 currently.. and I completely disagree with what you said above. It is a good weapon system but that is about it.

As far as being adapting to any purpose that is like saying a sledge hammer is a universal tool.. Before you get pissed let me give you an example. Would you want to shoot an ar-15 in an apartment building to protect yourself? Let me give you the answer.. NO. as even if you hit your target your round is going to blast through multiple walls and possibly kill innocents.

 

[NJ-TNP'r]

I think the problems with the rifle have been overblown. Then again, I've never been in a situation where my life depended upon it.
The initial issues were a result of somebody screwing around with the ammo. There were also issues like twist rate, bullet size (grain) and general practices around maintenance and lubicration.

Most of the issues today come down to this: engagements beyond 500 meters are simply outside the 223's effective range. There is also the generally feeling that a 223 bullet won't DRT targets. I think this has more to do with ammo selection than the actual bullet. I would think that a 223 HP will drop a man at 300 meters just a well as 308 HP. Dead is dead. However, a 223 FMJ will provide nice cooling ventalation holes without necassarily delivering an kill. A 308 FMJ...no idea people don't really talk about it so I'm left guessing.

As for jamming up: the wisdom now is to run it wet. The AR15 requires daily cleaning whether you run it wet or not. I've buried mine at the range and will still do a mag dump. Yeah - the dirt was fun to clean off, but it actually came off pretty easily b/c of the CLP it was stuck on with.

The AK47 for all of it's supposed greatness really isnt a better rifle. It's just cheaper. In many cases a lot cheaper. It's effective range is around 200 yards. No I wouldnt stand around with somebody shooting at me from 500 yards, but it won't be accurate fire and the round won't be going nearly as fast (ability to deliver force on impact) when it arrives. The 223 is a better bullet. Then again, I've never been shot by either so I can't compare and contract. This is all based on range cards.

One thing to ponder - despite the supposed dislike for the rifle we keep using. The military has tried several times now to find an alternative. Nothing has stepped up. In fact over and over despite various issues it keeps coming up as the best bang for the buck. Look at the SCAR & ACR. Both are considerably more expensive than the GI Spec M16. In many ways they are probably much better, but I don't think either really delivers a better value.

I just don't see the Stoners creation going away anytime soon. Frankly, when we start colonizing other planets it would not surprise me if the Marines landing on the ground are carrying M4s.

.223 is a crap caliber. I use a .308 upper.

 

[SPCHardin]

Saying that .223 is a "crap" caliber is a bit of a over-generalization. As AusTex hinted at, every gun (and caliber) for that reason, serves a purpose. Dead is Dead, no matter if you get hit with a .308 or a .22LR.

 

[NJ-TNP'r]

Saying that .223 is a "crap" caliber is a bit of a over-generalization. As AusTex hinted at, every gun (and caliber) for that reason, serves a purpose. Dead is Dead, no matter if you get hit with a .308 or a .22LR.

Pshh, .223 is for groundhogs at best.

 

[matefrio]

What makes it such a good platform is it's just that, a platform. Like the 1911 there are tons of companies that make them and many more accessorising them.

As far as the reliability and design it's the devil you know. We know what it'll do and what it won't all over the world and in situations too FUBARed to list.

 

[matefrio]

Pshh, .223 is for groundhogs at best.

Shoot a .308 round in your house and compare it to a .223 round and let's see what results are more favorable for home defense.

Practice with 1k of .308 rounds over the weekend and then with .223 and let's see who can afford to eat out Sunday night and who learned more.

 

[AusTex]

Lol soooo are you talking about ar-15's or ar-10s as there is a pretty big difference bud.. You don't slap a .308 upper onto an ar-15.

 

[NJ-TNP'r]

Shoot a .308 round in your house and compare it to a .223 round and let's see what results are more favorable for home defense.

Practice with 1k of .308 rounds over the weekend and then with .223 and let's see who can afford to eat out Sunday night and who learned more.

Haha, been done. Maybe I will do it again this week. Money is no problem at all. So I will go and do that this weekend and still eat a steak dinner on Sunday night.

 

[AusTex]

If anyone is wondering why I am being rude it is because of this and his other posts.. I think he is just trying to get a rise out of us... as if he is serious he really has a lot to learn about guns and how to present your opinions in general.

 

[SPCHardin]

+1. I prefer informed opinions over bashing any day.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

The AR is a good platform in the same manner that the ubiquitous Chevy "350" engine is/was, or the new LS series (LS1 for example) are. Not necessarily the best, but versatile and modular enough that it can be adapted for nearly any need. This will keep the AR going for decades to come. With the advent of calibers like 6.8SPC, any of the complaints of ballistic performance can easily be alleviated without much hassle. It's not perfect, but what is? Also, what else is anywhere as versatile? Honestly, I think that when it comes to many of the complaints of ballistic performance (barring the war time variables, barrier penetration, etc), a significant percentage of complaints could be dealt with if people had better shot placement. I mean honestly, if you are using an AR for defense and are getting good, solid upper thoracic hits, you are going to damage/destroy vital organs with pretty much any rifle caliber at 100yds and in, or possibly farther. At close range like that, a bigger round is just going to go all the way through and keep going, but the organs will still be destroyed all the same. Bottom line, put the shots where they need to go, and if necessary/possible go for the CNS shot if the threat continues. People can complain all day long about any caliber when the shots are mostly peripheral and less vital. Don't get me wrong, .223 is not necessarily "ideal", but the fact that it has such little recoil and you can just mag dump it asap while stacking rounds in the same small area counts for something.

 

[matefrio]

Should have smelled troll on this earlier on. Now I'm reminded of APatriot.

 

[AusTex]

+1 sig on the fact you can controllably put lead on target quick it is a good point.

Also about the wet vs dry.. I am from the old school thought that dry is good because wet oily surfaces just cause places for dirt,powder, or w/e to stick to! But if wet runs better go wet... I think whoever said daily cleaning is a must in life or death situations is right on when it comes to this platform... I sure would.

my not so educated 2cents on the subject... I need more shooting time and less typing time. Maybe this guy will buy me a few thousand rounds of ammo, take me shooting, and get me a steak dinner considering he is so well off..