Ar-15

[OLDVET]

Let's review a little history. The original Colt/Armalite M16 was designed for jungle combat where engagement distances are short. The original problem with the Colt rifles was with their chambers. The Colt people told the Army the M16s didn't get dirty, thus the rifles were shipped into combat with no cleaning kits. Bad choice. The original chambers rusted rapidly in jungle climates. This was later addressed with chrome chambers and cleaning kits issued to the troops. Early ammo was also a problem and some say the problem persists today. The M16 platform is well suited for the combat our troops encounter in the Middle East today where they usually fight door to door. I would like to see them go to a larger caliber round such as the 6.8, but the military guys in our family say they much prefer smaller lighter ammo. They like the idea of having as much ammo as they can carry, just in case.

 

[Wolfwood]

Wolfwood you're a real asshat. Haven't you ever seen videos of ships being torpedoed? That is literally what would happen if the tested .308 in they test. Literally Blownoutofthefuckinwater literally. Stop being dense.

ok , let me back up here. if it is an OVER penetration test, that implies that over penetration is BAD correct?
so how could a .308 Win (this means not over penetrate, or over penetrate the least) by a large margin ( to blow out of the water) against the aforementioned calibers?

maybe im crazy, but i think the .308 would travel MUCH further than a .223 after hitting a target.

i see what you are saying cody, but that is contrary to the commonly accepted meaning of "blow[ing] everything else out of the water"

if they were doing a penetration or some another test were the object is to shoot through barriers and kill as much shit as possible the .308 obviously wins.
derp.

also it is obvious that the .308 wasn't even considered for the test because it would tear Through everything . not a logical choice for an over penetration test, as you know what it is going to do anyway.


as i understand it the objective is to avoid over penetration.
if i have this backwards i am sincerely sorry.

If obvious douchebag is obvious,

Then is obvious douchebag obvious?

and still you refuse to answer simple questions.

 

[AusTex]

I have hand loaded a lot of 300 whisperer myself and although the blackout is pretty cool what are we talking about it? Heavier bullets going slower have more penetration or over penetration as the article below explains as I mostly admit defeat. Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
These tests use specific .223 self defense ammo and notice it is substantially heavier than most .223 75grn tap, 62win, etc. Assuming you are using those bullets then he is right, or he is right in general. I have seen 55grn soft points rip through drywall and not fragment at ranges of 25 yards. fmjs also do not doing anything of this sort at close ranges as per my experience... I shoot a lot of tracers 55grn and that makes it pretty easy to see the results of bullet penetration and I can tell you at close range this less than 20" penetration has not been my experience. This test shows rapid penetration lose of .223 in ballistics gel "after" penetration of dry wall. My point is which bullet is going to stop first assuming a complete miss of your target.. But again this data is damning to my argument assuming you are using this high velocity heavy .223 rounds. All this being said I would not keep a carbine .223 bedside. Lots of swat teams enter with pistols drawn in homes too. This video below is GRAPHIC so do not watch it if you cannot take it.. Here is the article of the situation. dPolice video shows how drug raid turned deadly | The Salt Lake Tribune



NJ you are coming off as pretty arrogant bud... So far all you have done is start very generalized topics and put in very generalized statements about what you like and don't like. You have not provided any mind blowing information and you continue to back yourself up in a very child-like way. I assume money is not an issue for you because you are still on someones payroll.

 

[Wolfwood]

lol is that guy taking on SWAT with a flea market katana!
dumb bastard.

an ya'll thought i was stupid.


on that note i am going to bed.

got off a 11 hour shift 4 hours ago and this thread is just ridiculous (something that is deserving of ridicule)

also i am not a physics major or a ballistics expert. so if .308 stops faster than a .223 i'm just an idiot asshat jerk off and should turn all my guns in at the next buy back event.

either that or move into an apartment and use a FAL for HD.
*shrug*

 

[codygjohnson]

ok , let me back up here. if it is an OVER penetration test, that implies that over penetration is BAD correct?
so how could a .308 Win (this means not over penetrate, or over penetrate the least) by a large margin ( to blow out of the water) against the aforementioned calibers?

Oh jeez. I was hoping at least YOU would catch the multifacited goodness of that you see what I did there troll vs. anittroll post...and on top of that, I wrote it while taking a doodie. Your interweb privledges have been revoked.

I will continue to spam this thread, thank you.

 

[tussery]

I don't mess around with the ***** .223 or .308 rounds. When someone breaks into my house I reach right for the .300 Win Mag. I want to kill the bad guy and my neighbors at once, because let's face it my neighbors are real annoying. I would reach for a .50 BMG but that is just ridiculous wasting a $3.00 round on a baddie.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

I thought that by injecting my own experience with my issue rifle that maybe this thread could be turned from trollness to something more productive.
I see that's not the case.
NJ TNP'r, you can't come into a forum as a new guy and immediately start insulting people. Wolfwood and a few others including myself have you pegged as a troll. Why not prove that you're not instead of calling someone a douchebag!?

...unless your only effort is to get banned in your first week here on TGT. then, by all means, continue - and nice knowing you.

 

[tweek]

I'm thinking about the logic of bringing a knife to a gun fight.......doesnt seem like a good idea. 3 shots of 9mm point blank. Can't really say I blame the officer. However, given that it was a no-knock raid I would also have a hard time finding the resident guilty of anything had he shot the officer(s). no knock is stupid and just puts everybody in danger. block the sewer, turn off the water, surround the house and send in the Jehovas witnesses to have a little chit chat with the bloke.

In regard to poking holes in stuff w/ 308....There is no friggin way I would fire my SCAR in the house. Whether I hit the target or not who ever is next in line 3 hourses away had better grab some carpet quick. I just don't see how a human body from 20' away w/ some wall board and bricks is going to stop a 308. But that is why I'm going to play around with it in a few weeks.

 

[AusTex]

The guy had a golf club in his hand. The officer was cleared of all charges. It is interesting that the same officer that just shot the guy in the Head then yells at him to stay on the ground? I am on the fence about this one because if that shiny thing was a gun the officer might have just saved his life and a few of his teammates. However going hot in an instant was a little premature to me. They made it pretty clear it was the police though.. People might call me a wussy but when cops are involved drop what you are doing and appear as non-threating as possible. I know a lot of hard asses that will argue tooth and nail about this and that but this video shows EXACTLY what can happen in a heart beat.. and after a bullet rips through your head nothing matters anymore regardless.. I would rather be a living wussy than a dead hard ass.

yeah I don't care what you say .308 hpbt will penetrate my steel targets at 350 yards that are over 1/4" thick.. You couldn't pay me to shoot a round like that in or around residential anywhere.

I think Tuss is the only one around here that knows what he is doing.

 

[SC-Texas]

Chill out with the name calling.

 

[SC-Texas]

Let's review a little history. The original Colt/Armalite M16 was designed for jungle combat where engagement distances are short. The original problem with the Colt rifles was with their chambers. The Colt people told the Army the M16s didn't get dirty, thus the rifles were shipped into combat with no cleaning kits. Bad choice. The original chambers rusted rapidly in jungle climates. This was later addressed with chrome chambers and cleaning kits issued to the troops. Early ammo was also a problem and some say the problem persists today. The M16 platform is well suited for the combat our troops encounter in the Middle East today where they usually fight door to door. I would like to see them go to a larger caliber round such as the 6.8, but the military guys in our family say they much prefer smaller lighter ammo. They like the idea of having as much ammo as they can carry, just in case.

Actually I beleive that you got a few things wrong about the concept of the 5.56 and where it came from and why they went in that diirection.

 

[codygjohnson]

Chill out with the name calling.

For the record, mine was an ill-fated attempt at extreme sarcasm... I really don't think you're an ***hat Wolfwood.

i'm just an idiot asshat jerk off and should turn all my guns in at the next buy back event.

Now you see though, you said that...so someone must now put this quote in their sig line.

 

[Texas1911]

IPs don't lie ... troll.