Arizona's Other New Law

[cougartex]

Senate Bill 1108, which allows people to carry concealed guns with no permit or safety training, took effect on July 29, the same day controversial immigration legislation is scheduled to begin enforcement.

Concealed weapons permit, training requirement ends Thursday - East Valley Tribune - Arizona Local News

atriot:

 

[matefrio]

My social website update yesterday: I'd like to congratulate Arizona joining Alaska and Vermont allowing concealed weapons without a permit. This and open carry. The $100, 10 hour class, $140 license, finger prints, background check, long wait and having to carry a ID card here in TX just doesn't make a person feel as free.

 

[M. Sage]

It makes us less free to have to do all that, actually.

Constitutional carry for the win! This should be all the CHL you need: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[Clockwork]

It makes us less free to have to do all that, actually.

Constitutional carry for the win! This should be all the CHL you need: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

+1

This.

 

[matefrio]

That was my point above, We are not as free as AZ with the hoops we need to jump though. They even have open carry.

 

[IXLR8]

Perhaps you should move to AZ. Personally I think people should be educated about the law, and the liabilities of carrying a weapon. AZ law permits the bad guys to carry as well, which will end up in shoot outs, between armed citizens with little knowledge of the consequences.

Texas may not meet with your approval, but it meets with mine.

 

[Clockwork]

Perhaps you should move to AZ. Personally I think people should be educated about the law, and the liabilities of carrying a weapon. AZ law permits the bad guys to carry as well, which will end up in shoot outs, between armed citizens with little knowledge of the consequences.

Texas may not meet with your approval, but it meets with mine.

Texas law won't stop bad guys from carrying a weapon regardless. Criminals aren't exactly known for obeying the law. Better to let everyone carry, I think.

 

[fnmedallion]

Perhaps you should move to AZ. Personally I think people should be educated about the law, and the liabilities of carrying a weapon. AZ law permits the bad guys to carry as well, which will end up in shoot outs, between armed citizens with little knowledge of the consequences.

Texas may not meet with your approval, but it meets with mine.

+1 there are a lot of people that i would not feel at all comfortable with them carrying open or concealed the texas system may be flawed , BUT our ad's accid. shootings,wrongful shooting percentages are way down and i believe the class and range shooting is directly responsible

 

[IXLR8]

+1 there are a lot of people that i would not feel at all comfortable with them carrying open or concealed the texas system may be flawed , BUT our ad's accid. shootings,wrongful shooting percentages are way down and i believe the class and range shooting is directly responsible

Some people just do not posses the required aptitude (or attitude) to carry a firearm. The minimal litmus test that Texas requires should provide an insignificant barrier to those that need to carry a weapon. If I were a LEO rolling up on a situation in AZ, I would have to assume everyone is armed. That will lead to undue and extraordinary stress for all first responders. The TX system may be flawed, but it is pretty good.

Correct me if I am wrong, but now illegal aliens can carry guns in AZ, and the LEO are not allowed to verify the legality of them carrying a firearm? Absurd.

 

[Clockwork]

Some people just do not posses the required aptitude (or attitude) to carry a firearm.

There are also a large number of people who are not comfortable with owning much less carrying a firearm... the law doesn't make it mandatory for people to carry a weapon regardless of their own personal desires.

Correct me if I am wrong, but now illegal aliens can carry guns in AZ, and the LEO are not allowed to verify the legality of them carrying a firearm?

Being an illegal alien, to my knowledge, is a misdemeanor. Repeatedly crossing the border illegally is a felony offense. What's the law say about using a weapon in connection with committing a felony? I don't really see what kind of a point you're getting at, here.

 

[texas skeeter]

Personally I think people should be educated about the law, and the liabilities of carrying a weapon.

and they should learn by their own means!! not forced by some city, state or gvnmnt law!!

which will end up in shoot outs, between armed citizens with little knowledge of the consequences.

well if they DONT know the laws concerning guns/shootings and they break one of them, then THEY GO TO JAIL!! this whole notion "WE HAVE TO TRAIN THEM" is bullsh-t and another way to control the HONEST LAW ABIDING gun owner!! the "Stupid Gene Pool" would make itself smaller if WE'D just enforce the laws we have to their fullest extent!!!!!!!!!

 

[RetArmySgt]

Perfectly put there CW.

 

[matefrio]

Perhaps you should move to AZ. Personally I think people should be educated about the law, and the liabilities of carrying a weapon. AZ law permits the bad guys to carry as well, which will end up in shoot outs, between armed citizens with little knowledge of the consequences.

Texas may not meet with your approval, but it meets with mine.

So, with your logic it's too late. We need to educate all gun owners, if they like it or not by your standards or the standards of a comity. We should go directly to the time of purchase and require safety lessons there. We'd need a document of completion for every gun owner. If you own a gun and don't have it those should be punished and deemed not worthy of gun ownership.

IXLR8,
I'd like to see your ideas of a course outline of the minimum a person should know before they are allowed to own or carry a gun. Who you think should teach and certify those people and the type and cost and type of the ID gun owners should have around to verify they have complied. Also the penalties of not having such a card. Also ... Justify how this is freedom and how two states currently allowing non licensed citizens carry Vermont and Alaska have suffered by the stupidity of those uneducated high risk idiots you've seemed to have identified here in Texas not worthy of your trust and who need such supervision so they don't blow their heads off or yours.

"If I were a LEO rolling up on a situation in AZ, I would have to assume everyone is armed."

If you were a LEO anywhere and assumed everyone wasn't armed you'd not be smart. ANYONE (ok, not anyone but most) who legally possesses a gun in TX can carry concealed in their car in TX. WHY is that different than what AZ has when a person is in their car or other situation.

 

[RetArmySgt]

+100 Matefrio +100

 

[matefrio]

My right to own a gun or to carry it around should not be inconvenienced by your feelings of insecurity.

Those who enjoy the freedom of owning guns want to sacrifice it to feel some temporary scene of security are our worse enemy.

I posted a video of gun owners who are for limiting the purchase of guns to one a month, read articles about gun owners who want to close the "gun show loophole", gun owners who think silencers and machine guns are illegal and cause problems for those who pay and go though hoops to own NFA items. The owner of Carters Country lobbing against private purchase, Bill Ruger wanting to reduce the magazine capacity to 10 rounds, simi auto "Assault" rifles are too dangerous but a gun owner thinking their hunting rifle is good enough for the common man.

The sense of entitlement when one thinks, I can own guns but others are too stupid to own guns so we need to regulate to MY standards always strikes a personal nerve.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin

 

[texas skeeter]

Bill Ruger wanting to reduce the magazine capacity to 10 rounds

F-CK BILL RUGER and the likes of him!!!!!! for he is just another SHEEPLE who has made a fortune from making/selling guns!! and now to serve "HIS" agenda of making him more popular and making more $$, he wants to make a statement as dangerous as limiting mag capacity!!!!!!! ANOTHER SELFISH JACKA$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[matefrio]

"The legendary William B. Ruger has retired as chairman, treasurer and chief executive of Sturm, Ruger & Co. after 51 years at the company's helm.

He recently was honored by being unanimously elected as an Honorary Life Member by the NRA Board of Directors."
January 2001 The American Guardian, p17.

• "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
• "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."
• "I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."

- Bill Ruger

September 13, 1994 - September 13, 2004 Federal Assult Weapons ban. Now a few states used those words against us to pass law.

 

[IXLR8]

It appears though I struck a few nerves with my comments. I did not say that the Texas laws were perfect. I never said anything about limiting purchases of guns or ammo. What I alluded to was that there members of our society that think they should carry a gun everywhere, and perhaps they do not understand the consequences of using it in an unlawful manner. What if someone continually harasses the public at large with his firearm. Under the AZ law, that would be very difficult to prove. People get into heated debates, I just want to make sure that it never escalates into gun violence. The public should never have to fear an armed reprisal from non-government, non LEO, individuals with a chip on their shoulder.

If you can prove that you deserve to carry either open or concealed, then I have no problem with you doing that. Now, how do you prove that. There are very few avenues in society that allow one person to prove to the people around him that carrying a weapon does not pose a hazard to law abiding citizens. There must be some sort of benchmark of proof that you are of sane mind, and reasonable intent when you carry a weapon. Is there a better way than a standardized test of the law, and marksmanship test? Has anyone ever failed the written portion of the Texas CHL license test? If they can't pass the marksmanship test, they probably should find a different defensive weapon.

Unfortunately not everyone grew up in Texas, around guns, and the culture of guns. I talk to people every day that have never even touched a gun. We take them to Gander mountain and they hold the first gun they have ever seen, and take pictures of each other holding them. So it is OK for one of these individuals to take that gun up the counter and buy it, with a box of shells and begin carrying it in their holster? Now that is nuts!

 

[matefrio]

IXLR8,

I am not a rich man. So don't take this lightly.

We live close to each other in the Katy TX area. I will pay you $100 for the privilege of convincing you, and possibly some on this board, that I am not a danger to society.

You put together the information I should know to carry a gun and a written test.
You develop a practical test of my basic gun handling abilities at Hotwells or American Shooting Center. (I will pay range fees)
You print a card I can carry that states your approval that any member here can check at will while I'm armed.

I will pay you $100 for the privilege of your feelings of security even though the money will be missed.

 

[IXLR8]

So, with your logic it's too late. We need to educate all gun owners, if they like it or not by your standards or the standards of a comity. We should go directly to the time of purchase and require safety lessons there. We'd need a document of completion for every gun owner. If you own a gun and don't have it those should be punished and deemed not worthy of gun ownership.

IXLR8,
I'd like to see your ideas of a course outline of the minimum a person should know before they are allowed to own or carry a gun. Who you think should teach and certify those
people and the type and cost and type of the ID gun owners should have around to verify they have complied. Also the penalties of not having such a card. Also ... Justify how this is freedom and how two states currently allowing non licensed citizens carry Vermont and Alaska have suffered by the stupidity of those uneducated high risk idiots you've seemed to have identified here in Texas not worthy of your trust and who need such supervision so they don't blow their heads off or yours.

"If I were a LEO rolling up on a situation in AZ, I would have to assume everyone is armed."

If you were a LEO anywhere and assumed everyone wasn't armed you'd not be smart. ANYONE (ok, not anyone but most) who legally possesses a gun in TX can carry concealed in their car in TX. WHY is that different than what AZ has when a person is in their car or other situation.

If you were a LEO rolling into Lubbock, you would assume everyone is armed. Then the "show and tell" would begin, and the drooling would start... It is a cultural idiom that works well in homogeneous communities. However it does not work well in ethnically and ideologically different areas. If everyone is expected to be armed, and everyone is familiar with the safety aspects then there would never be a problem. The problems arise when the difference of opinion is divided by gun ownership. How do you make non gun owner unafraid of the gun owner?