Arizona's Other New Law

[matefrio]

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

 

[Clockwork]

I've always loved that quote.

 

[IXLR8]

Seeing fat chicks wearing revealing clothes makes me uncomfortable, does that mean I get to ban fat chicks!?

+1

As far as I am concerned you can do whatever you like (within the law). I simply was trying illustrate why others may not like or understand what you are doing. To change a law, you have to change the perception of the act to being an acceptable action. Personally I don't like jail, so I try to follow the laws, no matter how irrational they may be.

 

[M. Sage]

I follow the laws, but my point is that they are immoral, unjust and actually unconstitutional.

 

[Clockwork]

Seeing fat chicks wearing revealing clothes makes me uncomfortable, does that mean I get to ban fat chicks!?

Oh, please do.

 

[matefrio]

+1

As far as I am concerned you can do whatever you like (within the law). I simply was trying illustrate why others may not like or understand what you are doing. To change a law, you have to change the perception of the act to being an acceptable action. Personally I don't like jail, so I try to follow the laws, no matter how irrational they may be.

Glad you've changed your mind as above you stated:

" AZ law permits the bad guys to carry as well, which will end up in shoot outs, between armed citizens with little knowledge of the consequences."
AND
"Some people just do not posses the required aptitude (or attitude) to carry a firearm."
AND
"So it is OK for one of these individuals to take that gun up the counter and buy it, with a box of shells and begin carrying it in their holster? Now that is nuts! "
AND
"[sic]...If you can prove that you deserve to carry either open or concealed, then I have no problem with you doing that."

All these seem to me to be against the right to carry guns for everyone who can legally possess one and a bit hoplophobic.

 

[Fisherman777]

" AZ law permits the bad guys to carry as well, which will end up in shoot outs, between armed citizens with little knowledge of the consequences."

That's bs. The law says nothing about ex-cons being exempt from the law that says that they can't own weapons. They don't care about the law anyway.

"Some people just do not posses the required aptitude (or attitude) to carry a firearm."

And you get to decide this... why? Oh! Because you're the smartest cookie in the box. Eh?

"So it is OK for one of these individuals to take that gun up the counter and buy it, with a box of shells and begin carrying it in their holster? Now that is nuts! "

Why is this nuts? I can already go into Academy in Louisiana with a fully loaded sidearm and purchase a gun and a box of shells. What's the difference if I decide to load it up and carry it right there? Does it scare you less for me to carry into the store than for me to buy it at the store and carry? That makes absolutely no sense. But I'm sure you'll 'splain it to me.

 

[randmplumbingllc]

To Mr M. Sage :

Thank you sir. I just started reading this thread and you saved me a butt-load of typing.

I hear some people bashing Arizona for their gun laws, but have to say, after living there for 25 years and only one in Texas, Texas needs to catch up to AZ. People fear the unknown. Seeing guns in AZ, on a daily basis, is common. It is all in what you get use to.

 

[border bandit]

I would prefer that no one knew I had a gun on so I wouldnt be the 1st to be targeted..

 

[fnmedallion]

F-CK BILL RUGER and the likes of him!!!!!! for he is just another SHEEPLE who has made a fortune from making/selling guns!! and now to serve "HIS" agenda of making him more popular and making more $$, he wants to make a statement as dangerous as limiting mag capacity!!!!!!! ANOTHER SELFISH JACKA$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gonna be kinda tough he daid

 

[IXLR8]

Why is this nuts? I can already go into Academy in Louisiana with a fully loaded sidearm and purchase a gun and a box of shells. What's the difference if I decide to load it up and carry it right there? Does it scare you less for me to carry into the store than for me to buy it at the store and carry? That makes absolutely no sense. But I'm sure you'll 'splain it to me.

Sir you already know which end is dangerous, the people that I was with had never even held a firearm. So, its ok for them walk to their car and load the weapon, and be prepared to use it in any situation that they seem fit to use it. So when you get shot by someone that never held a gun, and just because you were parked next to him or walking past, and he did not know how to load it, or keep it pointed away from other people. OOPS, sorry you got shot. There are people like that. Of course if you got shot you would probably shoot back not knowing it was an accident. I guess that would make it self correcting....

I see people like that at the range. You just pack up and move out of their way. Those holes in the benches, roofs, and posts all come from somewhere.

 

[randmplumbingllc]

I would prefer that no one knew I had a gun on so I wouldnt be the 1st to be targeted..

That is your CHOICE in Arizona.

I believe that carrying in the open has a deter effect. Would a robber rather rob a person that MAY have a gun OR rob a person who you KNOW has a gun ? Criminals prey on the weak and are lazy. Do you think they would rather assult you or a uniformed Police Officer ? Just like they would rather rob a house with no alarm and no one home, then rob a house with an alarm system and /or a armed homeowner.

 

[M. Sage]

I would prefer that no one knew I had a gun on so I wouldnt be the 1st to be targeted..

That's your choice. I'd like to carry comfortably in the summer months. I'd also like the choice to carry a larger gun that I'm better with. Concealing my P220 is turning out to be pretty hard. Open carry also allows for much faster access if you need it.

Out of all the open carry stories I've heard, I have seen zero incidents of carriers being targeted for their exposed guns.

Sir you already know which end is dangerous, the people that I was with had never even held a firearm. So, its ok for them walk to their car and load the weapon, and be prepared to use it in any situation that they seem fit to use it. So when you get shot by someone that never held a gun, and just because you were parked next to him or walking past, and he did not know how to load it, or keep it pointed away from other people. OOPS, sorry you got shot. There are people like that. Of course if you got shot you would probably shoot back not knowing it was an accident. I guess that would make it self correcting....

I see people like that at the range. You just pack up and move out of their way. Those holes in the benches, roofs, and posts all come from somewhere.

And experienced shooters can't make mistakes, too?

Yes, it is their right to go do just what you describe. What you're suggesting is like saying that you have to go through seminary to exercise your freedom of religion, or that you should have a journalism degree to be able to exercise your freedom of speech. Their level of experience or training matters not a bit.

I'd bet that a lot of people here would turn into complete noobs if they were ever put into a life or death situation. The NYPD did a study of their officers' performance in shootouts. They found that the hit percentage at 0-3 yards was only 50%... and it went down from there.

What you're describing is a complete non-problem. It's legal to do this in several states now and has there ever been a problem because of it? Show me.

 

[Wolfwood]

Oh, please do.

pfft jsut send em' to me
they have advantages

 

[Wolfwood]

tough he daid

what?

 

[Wolfwood]

I see people like that at the range. You just pack up and move out of their way. Those holes in the benches, roofs, and posts all come from somewhere.

maybe that's what you do... but the responsible person would go have a chat with them.
the RO cant be everywhere at once. especially at my range, he is usually sighting in a rifle himself.
the responsibility falls to US, the responsible shooters, to correct safety problems, whether they be with us, our equipment, with others or with their equipment.
if you see someone jacking around with a weapon and "just move your stuff" to the other side of the range, and he ends up nailing someone to the wall with a stray bullet, it is your fault as much as it is his. IMHO.

 

[RetArmySgt]

maybe that's what you do... but the responsible person would go have a chat with them.
the RO cant be everywhere at once. especially at my range, he is usually sighting in a rifle himself.
the responsibility falls to US, the responsible shooters, to correct safety problems, whether they be with us, our equipment, with others or with their equipment.
if you see someone jacking around with a weapon and "just move your stuff" to the other side of the range, and he ends up nailing someone to the wall with a stray bullet, it is your fault as much as it is his. IMHO.

I cant agree with you more Wolf, we need to pass the skills on to others or we will all suffer from it.

 

[M. Sage]

maybe that's what you do... but the responsible person would go have a chat with them.
the RO cant be everywhere at once. especially at my range, he is usually sighting in a rifle himself.
the responsibility falls to US, the responsible shooters, to correct safety problems, whether they be with us, our equipment, with others or with their equipment.
if you see someone jacking around with a weapon and "just move your stuff" to the other side of the range, and he ends up nailing someone to the wall with a stray bullet, it is your fault as much as it is his. IMHO.

That's pretty much what I do. Sometimes the conversation starts with "look, I'm sorry I yelled, but you were about to shoot someone..."

 

[Fisherman777]

maybe that's what you do... but the responsible person would go have a chat with them.
the RO cant be everywhere at once. especially at my range, he is usually sighting in a rifle himself.
the responsibility falls to US, the responsible shooters, to correct safety problems, whether they be with us, our equipment, with others or with their equipment.
if you see someone jacking around with a weapon and "just move your stuff" to the other side of the range, and he ends up nailing someone to the wall with a stray bullet, it is your fault as much as it is his. IMHO.

I agree and it can be done in a friendly way too. I've read on this forum where people have said that they would thrash such a person or put a bullet in them or at least yell at them. Maybe they just need a little help or instruction. I think I can do that without yelling at them and making them feel like a dumba** in public.

 

[IXLR8]

I rest my case. Some instruction IS necessary, at least according to the previous 3 replies. It is just a matter of whom and how much...