Biden hints at executive order
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Isn't that what daddy Bush did in 89??
EO says the ATF is no longer allowed to allow importation of semi auto assault rifles, and bam all imports are rejected at the docks.
He told the ATF what to do and it restricted the whole nation as it trickles down from the top.
So when he dicides anything with a detachable magazine should be a DD......or maybe a 12ga shouldn't have a sporting exemption, barrel under 20" is now an SBR.
I'm sure it would go to the Supreme Court but it should never be able to get to that point.
No he can not change the law. a detachable magazine is not a DD, and 20 BBL is not a SBR.
But he can say any shotgun that takes more than 2 rounds is non-sporting. Or any imported rifle with a detachable magazine is non-sporting, etc.
Or instruct ATF to load an AR-15 with very soft primered ammo and epoxy the firing pin so it protrudes from the bolt.
Maybe they'll get a few catastrophic explosions but if a single one manages to touch off 2 rounds they can say all ARs are easily converted to MGs and therefore are MGs.
Of course amnesty for all those unregistered MGs is at their discretion and Holder will say no. Turn em all in for destruction or go to prison or die. In Soviet Amerika gun turns you in !
Maybe they'll get a few catastrophic explosions but if a single one manages to touch off 2 rounds they can say all ARs are easily converted to MGs and therefore are MGs.
Of course amnesty for all those unregistered MGs is at their discretion and Holder will say no. Turn em all in for destruction or go to prison or die. In Soviet Amerika gun turns you in !
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Yep, they don't care what the 2A supports think.
I just don't think they'll risk losing control of the senate in two years if they try to put this through Congress. It would be a great pick-up for the Republicans if they did! But I just don't see them risking that. I think they'll do an executive order.
Hello All,
Just wanted to throw some things out there in terms of executive orders because this scared me as well. Executive orders are meant to execute existing laws therefore in all actuality and executive order could quite possibly benefit we gun owners simply because he can do nothing but reaffirm existing laws meaning he can crack down on gang violence (the real culprit) or strengthen mental health. What the president cannot do is institute a law that is not on the books therefore we have very little to be worried about when Biden weightlessly threatens to use executive order. Executive orders are not law only congress can pass a law.
Just wanted to throw some things out there in terms of executive orders because this scared me as well. Executive orders are meant to execute existing laws therefore in all actuality and executive order could quite possibly benefit we gun owners simply because he can do nothing but reaffirm existing laws meaning he can crack down on gang violence (the real culprit) or strengthen mental health. What the president cannot do is institute a law that is not on the books therefore we have very little to be worried about when Biden weightlessly threatens to use executive order. Executive orders are not law only congress can pass a law.
General Zod
TGT Addict
That's true in normal circumstances, Sgt.Carp, but this President has issued executive orders to change or circumvent existing law before, with immigration. With an executive order, he granted amnesty to illegal aliens who had come to the US as children and were currently under 30 years of age. Total abuse of the very concept of the executive order, and the Republicans in Congress did not do a damned thing about it.
Now that he's been shown he can rule by fiat, what's to stop him from handing down an executive order to violate the Second Amendment in any way he sees fit? Will the Republican establishment grow a pair and oppose him, strike down the executive order as is appropriate? Or will it take state attorneys general taking it to the Supreme Court, and praying John Roberts doesn't rule the way he did with Obamacare?
Either way, this is a disturbing possibility and a serious threat to our freedom as American citizens.
Now that he's been shown he can rule by fiat, what's to stop him from handing down an executive order to violate the Second Amendment in any way he sees fit? Will the Republican establishment grow a pair and oppose him, strike down the executive order as is appropriate? Or will it take state attorneys general taking it to the Supreme Court, and praying John Roberts doesn't rule the way he did with Obamacare?
Either way, this is a disturbing possibility and a serious threat to our freedom as American citizens.
Right, that's the Republicans.
The Republicans won't do anything...they're "gentlemen". I think you need both houses of Congress to "undo" an Executive Order anyway, and the Democrats have the Senate.
Yep. They'll ban AR's and similar rifles...current owners will have to register, and they won't be able to sell or give them away ever. They'll ban 10+ magazines. They might even have all gun owners register their guns.
General Zod,
In the case of the constitution and our right we not only have the venue of congressional intervention but the supreme court the only real valid interpreter of the constitution and lately they have been on our side. By no means am I advocating for the presidents use of executive order I'm merely saying that because it is not law it is more easily opposed. Clearly DEMS and like minded individuals have no other intention but to enact a AWB I believe in terms of strategy that executive order holds less merit than congressional law so it it far more plausible that such an action which is a breach of our 2nd amendment rights would be struck down.
In the case of the constitution and our right we not only have the venue of congressional intervention but the supreme court the only real valid interpreter of the constitution and lately they have been on our side. By no means am I advocating for the presidents use of executive order I'm merely saying that because it is not law it is more easily opposed. Clearly DEMS and like minded individuals have no other intention but to enact a AWB I believe in terms of strategy that executive order holds less merit than congressional law so it it far more plausible that such an action which is a breach of our 2nd amendment rights would be struck down.
General Zod
TGT Addict
Sorry, Sgt, but the Supreme Court has only been on our side most of the time lately. Justice Roberts turned his back on the Constitution when his swing vote ruled Obamacare constitutional, and nobody knows how he might go on this issue. Otherwise, it's an even split between justices who support the Constitution and those who rule based on liberal political policy.
General Zod
TGT Addict
Oh, and please. Call me Zod.
Executive Orders can not make laws, they can only clarify laws, instruct Federal agencies on enforcement of laws or act to further a law put forth by the Congress or the Constitution.
Ordering a Federal agency on how to enforce, or not enforce, laws that Congress has passed is very different from starting new enforcement of a law that Congress hasn't even passed. Here are some things Obama would need to go through Congress for in order to get done:
- Ban assault weapons.
- Close the "loophole" that allows guns to be sold privately without background checks. The White House is trying to get Wal-Mart to support the proposal in order to push it through Congress.
- Allowing the the CDC or the NIH to even research guns. The Tiahrt Amendments blocked funding for collecting gun crime data and researching the impact on society, Mayors Against Illegal Guns are fighting to have this changed.
- Getting pro-gun control judges confirmed and seated to the bench.The National Rifle Association already has a program in place to block Obama's nominees that it sees as likely to enforce gun-control laws.
Things that Obama can get done through Executive Order are much smaller and do not need to be passed as laws by Congress. They could include changes to federal mental-health programs, modernization of the gun-tracking efforts by BATFE, sharing of information between state and local law enforcement agencies, keeping information on gun sales longer, and banning the importation of military-style weapons and ammunition, creating a regulation stopping the inter-State shipping of firearms or ammunition under the Commerce Agency.
His Executive Orders have the "Force of Law" for Federal Agencies in how they apply the laws passed by Congress or contained in the Constitution... they are not new laws added to the USC or the Constitution. In order to eliminate the EO, Congress can pass a law that nullifies it.
.
Ordering a Federal agency on how to enforce, or not enforce, laws that Congress has passed is very different from starting new enforcement of a law that Congress hasn't even passed. Here are some things Obama would need to go through Congress for in order to get done:
- Ban assault weapons.
- Close the "loophole" that allows guns to be sold privately without background checks. The White House is trying to get Wal-Mart to support the proposal in order to push it through Congress.
- Allowing the the CDC or the NIH to even research guns. The Tiahrt Amendments blocked funding for collecting gun crime data and researching the impact on society, Mayors Against Illegal Guns are fighting to have this changed.
- Getting pro-gun control judges confirmed and seated to the bench.The National Rifle Association already has a program in place to block Obama's nominees that it sees as likely to enforce gun-control laws.
Things that Obama can get done through Executive Order are much smaller and do not need to be passed as laws by Congress. They could include changes to federal mental-health programs, modernization of the gun-tracking efforts by BATFE, sharing of information between state and local law enforcement agencies, keeping information on gun sales longer, and banning the importation of military-style weapons and ammunition, creating a regulation stopping the inter-State shipping of firearms or ammunition under the Commerce Agency.
His Executive Orders have the "Force of Law" for Federal Agencies in how they apply the laws passed by Congress or contained in the Constitution... they are not new laws added to the USC or the Constitution. In order to eliminate the EO, Congress can pass a law that nullifies it.
.
That's fine and dandy, but it changes nothing. Federal LEOs will be the one's enforcing federal law. What can the AG realistically do to prevent the enforcement of federal law?
I think the best thing our AG will do for us is file an injunction and take it to the courts questioning its constitutionality.
My understanding from those on here who's opinion I have a lot of respect for is that once the injunction is filed the laws can not take effect until the court has ruled on them.
My understanding from those on here who's opinion I have a lot of respect for is that once the injunction is filed the laws can not take effect until the court has ruled on them.
lschilders
New Member
Just remember.........................If he succeeds, They may be war.
Thomas Jefferson, on the second amendment:
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every
form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson
A Well-Organized and Armed Militia
"For a people who are free and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. It is, therefore, incumbent on us at every meeting [of Congress] to revise the condition of the militia and to ask ourselves if it is prepared to repel a powerful enemy at every point of our territories exposed to invasion... Congress alone have power to produce a uniform state of preparation in this great organ of defense. The interests which they so deeply feel in their own and their country's security will present this as among the most important objects of their deliberation."
--Thomas Jefferson: 8th Annual Message, 1808. ME 3:482
"None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important." --Thomas Jefferson, 1803.
"It is more a subject of joy [than of regret] that we have so few of the desperate characters which compose modern regular armies. But it proves more forcibly the necessity of obliging every citizen to be a soldier; this was the case with the Greeks and Romans and must be that of every free State. Where there is no oppression there can be no pauper hirelings." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813.
"A well-disciplined militia, our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war till regulars may relieve them, I deem [one of] the essential principles of our Government, and consequently [one of] those which ought to shape its administration."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801.
"[The] governor [is] constitutionally the commander of the militia of the State, that is to say, of every man in it able to bear arms." --Thomas Jefferson to A. L. C. Destutt de Tracy, 1811.
"Uncertain as we must ever be of the particular point in our circumference where an enemy may choose to invade us, the only force which can be ready at every point and competent to oppose them, is the body of neighboring citizens as formed into a militia. On these, collected from the parts most convenient, in numbers proportioned to the invading foe, it is best to rely, not only to meet the first attack, but if it threatens to be permanent, to maintain the defence until regulars may be engaged to relieve them."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:334
Every Citizen a Member of the Militia
"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done."
--Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813.
"I think the truth must now be obvious that our people are too happy at home to enter into regular service, and that we cannot be defended but by making every citizen a soldier, as the Greeks and Romans who had no standing armies; and that in doing this all must be marshaled, classed by their ages, and every service ascribed to its competent class."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Wayles Eppes, 1814.
On Civil Rights
The Right to Bear Arms
In a nation governed by the people themselves, the possession of arms to defend their nation against usurpers within and without was deemed absolutely necessary. This right was protected by the 2nd Amendment.
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824.
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."
--Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. ME 9:341
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the Body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind . . . Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."
--Thomas Jefferson, Letter to his nephew Peter Carr, August 19, 1785.
"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)."
--Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution with (his note added), 1776. Papers, 1:353
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).
Thomas Jefferson, on the second amendment:
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every
form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson
A Well-Organized and Armed Militia
"For a people who are free and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. It is, therefore, incumbent on us at every meeting [of Congress] to revise the condition of the militia and to ask ourselves if it is prepared to repel a powerful enemy at every point of our territories exposed to invasion... Congress alone have power to produce a uniform state of preparation in this great organ of defense. The interests which they so deeply feel in their own and their country's security will present this as among the most important objects of their deliberation."
--Thomas Jefferson: 8th Annual Message, 1808. ME 3:482
"None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important." --Thomas Jefferson, 1803.
"It is more a subject of joy [than of regret] that we have so few of the desperate characters which compose modern regular armies. But it proves more forcibly the necessity of obliging every citizen to be a soldier; this was the case with the Greeks and Romans and must be that of every free State. Where there is no oppression there can be no pauper hirelings." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813.
"A well-disciplined militia, our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war till regulars may relieve them, I deem [one of] the essential principles of our Government, and consequently [one of] those which ought to shape its administration."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801.
"[The] governor [is] constitutionally the commander of the militia of the State, that is to say, of every man in it able to bear arms." --Thomas Jefferson to A. L. C. Destutt de Tracy, 1811.
"Uncertain as we must ever be of the particular point in our circumference where an enemy may choose to invade us, the only force which can be ready at every point and competent to oppose them, is the body of neighboring citizens as formed into a militia. On these, collected from the parts most convenient, in numbers proportioned to the invading foe, it is best to rely, not only to meet the first attack, but if it threatens to be permanent, to maintain the defence until regulars may be engaged to relieve them."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:334
Every Citizen a Member of the Militia
"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done."
--Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813.
"I think the truth must now be obvious that our people are too happy at home to enter into regular service, and that we cannot be defended but by making every citizen a soldier, as the Greeks and Romans who had no standing armies; and that in doing this all must be marshaled, classed by their ages, and every service ascribed to its competent class."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Wayles Eppes, 1814.
On Civil Rights
The Right to Bear Arms
In a nation governed by the people themselves, the possession of arms to defend their nation against usurpers within and without was deemed absolutely necessary. This right was protected by the 2nd Amendment.
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824.
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."
--Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. ME 9:341
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the Body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind . . . Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."
--Thomas Jefferson, Letter to his nephew Peter Carr, August 19, 1785.
"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)."
--Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution with (his note added), 1776. Papers, 1:353
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).
Shooter McGavin
Active Member
Clinton used EO to ban imported "assault weapons".
What makes you think Obunga will abide by established rules ?
He directed ATF to require FFLs track and report multiple long gun sales with no authority of law. The GCA 1968 only gives the govt the power to track multiple handgun sales, not rifles. He used the threat of imprisonment or death to compel FFLs into reporting sales against the spirit of the law passed by congress.
If anyone thinks the african emperor is constrained by such trivialities as the rule of law, get ready for a rude awakening.
He directed ATF to require FFLs track and report multiple long gun sales with no authority of law. The GCA 1968 only gives the govt the power to track multiple handgun sales, not rifles. He used the threat of imprisonment or death to compel FFLs into reporting sales against the spirit of the law passed by congress.
If anyone thinks the african emperor is constrained by such trivialities as the rule of law, get ready for a rude awakening.
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