Boy Scouts - The real issue with homosexuality and leadership.

[matefrio]

These are my personal thoughts and not intended to reflect the thoughts and feelings of this forum or it's other members. Mods, shut down if this doesn't jive with the forum.

The risks of any leadership hurting the boys can be mitigated gay or straight. I don't know if there will or won't be an acceptable level of risk there though for everyone but this isn't the issue at hand.

The morality of the leadership we put in front of the boys is the issue.

What leaders teach the Boy Scouts directly or indirectly as a person they can look up to is very important. I'd not want a leader who is openly a liar, a fornicator, an adulterer, a killer or a thief either.

My belief is that homosexuality, more specifically the act of having same gender sex, any fixation or feeding of the desire is a sin. It shouldn't be embraced or allowed to be normal and defiantly shouldn't be put in front of the Boy Scouts as something to follow.

Please don't accuse me of being homophobic, I associate with all sorts of sinners every day and will admit to having my own weaknesses and vices. These weaknesses and vices I don't advertise as good, impose on others, nor do I condone as I strive to do better.

As a former scout leader and as a parent of a young scout if I had committed an act or was openly living a lifestyle that would have distracted or lead the boys away from the path of morality I'd have removed myself or expected to be removed and think every other leader should feel the same.

 

[Stumpy]

I agree.

 

[Vaquero]

Good post.
I am homophobic. It's an illness, not my fault.

 

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT]

I agree as well.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

10-4 i agree

 

[Jakashh]

Would a gay scout leader really push his opinions onto the scouts, let alone discuss them? I wasn't in the scouts, I have no idea.

 

[transplanttexan]

While I personally disagree with your belief that homosexuality is a sin (I would have to believe your religion in order to believe that), I don't fault you for it. It is a personal belief and you have the right to believe whatever you want.

The way I look at the boy scout issue, the scouts are a private organization. As such they should be able to set rules that govern who they allow to involve in their group. I believe that homosexuals have the same rights as every other human being. But people do not have a right to be included in a private club. The club is organized by people who have a similar set of values and should not be forced to include someone who doesn't share those values. If the clubs values shift over time, great; if not, that's fine also.

Way too much liberty has been taken from people in the name of equality and political correctness. No one should be forced to associate with people they dislike, no matter how unpopular their prejudices may be. To force someone to associate with someone they dislike for any reason is to infringe on that person's liberty to choose his associates.

 

[matefrio]

Would a gay scout leader really push his opinions onto the scouts, let alone discuss them? I wasn't in the scouts, I have no idea.

Being openly gay and in a leadership position is waving the banner of immorality even if it's not talked about. We lead by our actions, and example.

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

Don't have an issue with homosexuality.

My only concern is the increased potential for sexual assault, but that issue is present in the Catholic church too.

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

While I personally disagree with your belief that homosexuality is a sin (I would have to believe your religion in order to believe that), I don't fault you for it. It is a personal belief and you have the right to believe whatever you want.

The way I look at the boy scout issue, the scouts are a private organization. As such they should be able to set rules that govern who they allow to involve in their group. I believe that homosexuals have the same rights as every other human being. But people do not have a right to be included in a private club. The club is organized by people who have a similar set of values and should not be forced to include someone who doesn't share those values. If the clubs values shift over time, great; if not, that's fine also.

Way too much liberty has been taken from people in the name of equality and political correctness. No one should be forced to associate with people they dislike, no matter how unpopular their prejudices may be. To force someone to associate with someone they dislike for any reason is to infringe on that person's liberty to choose his associates.

This right here is a good post.

 

[transplanttexan]

Being openly gay and in a leadership position is waving the banner of immorality even if it's not talked about. We lead by our actions, and example.

That does come down to individual morals though. I find nothing morally wrong with being homosexual, but if the majority of Boy Scout leadership finds it immoral then they should not be forced to include them.


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[Ericstac]

boy scouts was founded and is encouraged to practice Christianity so why would the accept the gays. with that said, i dont think just cuz a dude is gay means he will attack a kid. thats a different kind of perversion and can be of any breed, which is why my boys are not in boy scouts.

 

[txinvestigator]

These are my personal thoughts and intended to reflect the thoughts and feelings of this forum or it's other members. Mods, shut down if this doesn't jive with the forum.

The risks of any leadership hurting the boys can be mitigated gay or straight. I don't know if there will or won't be an acceptable level of risk there though for everyone but this isn't the issue at hand.

The morality of the leadership we put in front of the boys is the issue.

What leaders teach the Boy Scouts directly or indirectly as a person they can look up to is very important. I'd not want a leader who is openly a liar, a fornicator, an adulterer, a killer or a thief either.

My belief is that homosexuality, more specifically the act of having same gender sex, any fixation or feeding of the desire is a sin. It shouldn't be embraced or allowed to be normal and defiantly shouldn't be put in front of the Boy Scouts as something to follow.

Please don't accuse me of being homophobic, I associate with all sorts of sinners every day and will admit to having my own weaknesses and vices. These weaknesses and vices I don't advertise as good, impose on others, nor do I condone as I strive to do better.

As a former scout leader and as a parent of a young scout if I had committed an act or was openly living a lifestyle that would have distracted or lead the boys away from the path of morality I'd have removed myself or expected to be removed and think every other leader should feel the same.

Huge respect for a well thought out and reasoned post.

 

[matefrio]

boy scouts was founded and is encouraged to practice Christianity so why would the accept the gays. with that said, i dont think just cuz a dude is gay means he will attack a kid. thats a different kind of perversion and can be of any breed, which is why my boys are not in boy scouts.

Boys need role models and a safe environment. BSA has, over time and like other places and organizations that instruct our children, gone though it's own challenges and learned from those mistakes.

The most challenging thing now as a leader in scouts is the paperwork, required training and rules of being a leader. Soooo many safe guards are put in there now it's getting hard to focus on the boys and the activities.

IF followed though, the rules protect the leaders and the boys better than any I've seen including our schools. The organization is highly motivated to keep your kids safe primarily and the leaders safe.

Another fail safe is the involvement of the parents. There are ways to be involved and check things out.

As I said, I don't think the level of risk to the children will ever be fully eliminated but it is mitigated and what I consider an acceptable level. My acceptable level of risk isn't everyone's though.

 

[wakal]

Homosexual pedophiles are homosexual by definition. Not all Homosexuals are pedophiles!

However, sheeple get concerned when a mature heterosexual male is around a bunch of young girls for an extended time unsupervised because...heterosexual men like females. Not all heterosexuals are pedophiles!

So...why are the sheeple NOT concerned when a mature homosexual is around a bunch of young men?

Interesting times.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I think there's a large difference between someone who is openly gay and advocates for that lifestyle and someone who is gay and struggles with it as they try to lead a moral, celibate life.

Not very many of the latter these days.


Its a private organization. I don't see why its an issue. Is this about DC goons trying to but in where they don't belong again? I haven't been keeping up with BSA.

 

[TheDan]

My belief is that homosexuality, more specifically the act of having same gender sex, any fixation or feeding of the desire is a sin. It shouldn't be embraced or allowed to be normal and defiantly shouldn't be put in front of the Boy Scouts as something to follow.

Even though it is a deviation form the majority, it is normal. There's always going to be a certain percentage of the population that is gay. It's been that way long before the concept of sin was created.

I honestly don't see what someone does in the bedroom has anything to do with mentoring kids. I would find it equally odd if a strait guy was talking about his marital relations in front of a bunch of kids. I just don't see how the subject would ever come up in a meaningful way. That said, the Boy Scouts are a private org and I support their right to allow or bar whoever the they want.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Even though it is a deviation form the majority, it is normal. There's always going to be a certain percentage of the population that is gay. It's been that way long before the concept of sin was created.

I honestly don't see what someone does in the bedroom has anything to do with mentoring kids. I would find it equally odd if a strait guy was talking about his marital relations in front of a bunch of kids. I just don't see how the subject would ever come up in a meaningful way. That said, the Boy Scouts are a private org and I support their right to allow or bar whoever the they want.

That is irrelevant to the conversation. Its not being gay that's considered a sin, it the choice to have gay sex.

It's not my business if someone is sniffing coke off a hooker's backside in the privacy of their own home either. I still wouldn't want that person leading my children.

 

[TX69]

Unfortunately for the BOA it is a huge visible scar that will never fade away. Letting faggots into the BOA is like letting a fox into the hen house.

 

[GaryH]

I pass no judgement on gays. That's God's place. I've been taught that it was immoral, and I haven't seen proof to the contrary. Boy Scouts principles are partly based on morality. A Boy Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.

The Scout Oath or Promise:

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.


This just doesn't seem, to me, to fall inline with the gay lifestyle.