Boy Scouts - The real issue with homosexuality and leadership.

[Stumpy]

I pass no judgement on gays. That's God's place. I've been taught that it was immoral, and I haven't seen proof to the contrary. Boy Scouts principles are partly based on morality. A Boy Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.

The Scout Oath or Promise:

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.


This just doesn't seem, to me, to fall inline with the gay lifestyle.

+1

 

[Sugar Land]

Sorry guys but being PC is not going to cut it. I am too old now to change my beliefs and yall just gonna have to wait till I die. There are still a few of us old timers that are not buying the into that it is OK. I am sure that future generations will make it OK but I will be long gone by then.

 

[deemus]

I shared my BSA experience on another thread. While several of the kids in the troop I was in, participated in gay sex on a BSA campout, I cannot say the leadership knew or encouraged it. I hope not. But that weekend cured me of my desire for merit badges.

The age of those boys is very much subject for forming opinions and habits that will stay for life. In spite of the fact I have gay family members whom I love deeply, I do consider it to be deviant in nature. IMO these kids do not need a gay lifestyle "salesman." No doubt some will end up being gay. But they need to find that path themselves. And anyone who wants to paint the BSA as "homophobic" or mean spirited is simply attempting to guilt the BSA into opening themselves up for people who are more than willing to help impressionable young minds find the gay lifestyle.

Our nation is in a battle for the minds of our youth. This is just another example of it.

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

Sorry guys but being PC is not going to cut it. I am too old now to change my beliefs and yall just gonna have to wait till I die. There are still a few of us old timers that are not buying the into that it is OK. I am sure that future generations will make it OK but I will be long gone by then.

Doesn't bother me if you're tolerant or not. Just as two gay guys/girls getting married doesn't bother me - because it literally does not affect my life in any way whatsoever. As it's been said though, it's a private organization, don't care either way.

We're upon a new generation that is more tolerant than the previous. Hell, I know several older people(80yrs+) who still have racist values.

 

[bullgator]

Sexual orientation should not be a qualification for any job or group membership. Are you an upstanding person of good moral character that you would be willing to entrust your child with.

 

[TwinGlocks]

It's a private organization and they can do what they want but I wouldn't want my kids to think that it's okay to exclude people just for being gay and so I would not nor would I want my kids associating with any such organization that thinks it okay.

 

[Chupacabra Hunter]

So many good posts with many valid points.... in the end, BSA is a private organization and decides who is a member and who is a leader. If certain people dont like the BSA do business, they should start their own scouting club to include straight and gays. It bothers me that these same people want to legalize marriage.. If you are gay and want to live with your gay partner and want to have some kind of legal recognition, then it should be called something else besides "marriage". To me , the word "marriage" is a union between a man and woman under the eyes of God. Anything else should be called something else... rant off.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Sorry guys but being PC is not going to cut it. I am too old now to change my beliefs and yall just gonna have to wait till I die. There are still a few of us old timers that are not buying the into that it is OK. I am sure that future generations will make it OK but I will be long gone by then.

this is all truth no more no less

 

[Greg_TX]

[...] We're upon a new generation that is more tolerant than the previous. [...]

I disagree with you on this point. The emerging culture in our country is more tolerant of some things, and less tolerant of other things, but not more tolerant overall. In fact, taking all things together, I'd say the culture today is more intolerant than any previous generation.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

These are my personal thoughts and not intended to reflect the thoughts and feelings of this forum or it's other members. Mods, shut down if this doesn't jive with the forum.

The risks of any leadership hurting the boys can be mitigated gay or straight. I don't know if there will or won't be an acceptable level of risk there though for everyone but this isn't the issue at hand.

The morality of the leadership we put in front of the boys is the issue.

What leaders teach the Boy Scouts directly or indirectly as a person they can look up to is very important. I'd not want a leader who is openly a liar, a fornicator, an adulterer, a killer or a thief either.

My belief is that homosexuality, more specifically the act of having same gender sex, any fixation or feeding of the desire is a sin. It shouldn't be embraced or allowed to be normal and defiantly shouldn't be put in front of the Boy Scouts as something to follow.

Please don't accuse me of being homophobic, I associate with all sorts of sinners every day and will admit to having my own weaknesses and vices. These weaknesses and vices I don't advertise as good, impose on others, nor do I condone as I strive to do better.

As a former scout leader and as a parent of a young scout if I had committed an act or was openly living a lifestyle that would have distracted or lead the boys away from the path of morality I'd have removed myself or expected to be removed and think every other leader should feel the same.

Sorry I know plenty of gay people, and do not hold their sexual orientation against them in any way. I may not agree with it but it's really none of my business to "agree/disagree with" what goes on in their bedroom, so long as it doesn't affect me and is not involving any children (or animals lol).

But I will say it now, and I'll say it again. If there is one place homosexuality does not belong and I believe it is perfectly justifiable to be rejected, it's the Boy Scouts. We've already got a nation going "gay crazy" enough as it is. Some places just do not need a gay influence, and the BSA is one of them. Teaching a boy to be a man, oh but if he wants to be a girly man it's ok? To hell with that.

And although I am not "anti gay" per say, I am definitely 100% anti "transgender". Sorry but as far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as a "transgendered" person. To be a man with male body parts but try to claim you are a woman on the inside, is a sign of mental illness and an obvious disconnect from REALITY. Even if someone goes as far as having a damn sex change operation (a definite sign of mental instability, I mean come the **** on really), I still will only refer to them as "he/she/him/her" depending on whatever sex their birth certificate says they are. I refuse to take someone seriously if they claim to be "transgendered" because that is one of the sickest and just downright STUPID things I have ever heard of in my entire life. And I resent this whole libtarded movement to try and force people to accept people who can't even see reality enough to know what damn gender they are.

I remember reading an article from either Think Progress, Media Matters, or Huffington Post. It was about how, "how can you say Obama's done nothing good for this country!?!?". Among many of the utterly RIDICULOUS points of this article, one of them said, "Appointed the very first transgendered cabinet member (or maybe it wasn't cabinet member, but some governmental position)".

And this is a "good" thing how? Screw that, I already don't like Barack Obama, but reading that made me like him even less.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Sorry I know plenty of gay people, and do not hold their sexual orientation against them in any way. I may not agree with it but it's really none of my business to "agree/disagree with" what goes on in their bedroom, so long as it doesn't affect me and is not involving any children (or animals lol).

But I will say it now, and I'll say it again. If there is one place homosexuality does not belong and I believe it is perfectly justifiable to be rejected, it's the Boy Scouts. We've already got a nation going "gay crazy" enough as it is. Some places just do not need a gay influence, and the BSA is one of them. Teaching a boy to be a man, oh but if he wants to be a girly man it's ok? To hell with that.

And although I am not "anti gay" per say, I am definitely 100% anti "transgender". Sorry but as far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as a "transgendered" person. To be a man with male body parts but try to claim you are a woman on the inside, is a sign of mental illness and an obvious disconnect from REALITY. Even if someone goes as far as having a damn sex change operation (a definite sign of mental instability, I mean come the **** on really), I still will only refer to them as "he/she/him/her" depending on whatever sex their birth certificate says they are. I refuse to take someone seriously if they claim to be "transgendered" because that is one of the sickest and just downright STUPID things I have ever heard of in my entire life. And I resent this whole libtarded movement to try and force people to accept people who can't even see reality enough to know what damn gender they are.

I remember reading an article from either Think Progress, Media Matters, or Huffington Post. It was about how, "how can you say Obama's done nothing good for this country!?!?". Among many of the utterly RIDICULOUS points of this article, one of them said, "Appointed the very first transgendered cabinet member (or maybe it wasn't cabinet member, but some governmental position)".

And this is a "good" thing how? Screw that, I already don't like Barack Obama, but reading that made me like him even less.

another fact

 

[jr urbina]

As a scoutmaster in CenTex I find it abhorrent. They better not come out with some kinda rainbow merit badge or a Trans-gender family values badge or something silly like that.

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

I disagree with you on this point. The emerging culture in our country is more tolerant of some things, and less tolerant of other things, but not more tolerant overall. In fact, taking all things together, I'd say the culture today is more intolerant than any previous generation.

Well, specifically towards homosexuality.

I don't have anything in mind where society has become less tolerant towards. Examples?

 

[308nato]

Sorry guys but being PC is not going to cut it. I am too old now to change my beliefs and yall just gonna have to wait till I die. There are still a few of us old timers that are not buying the into that it is OK. I am sure that future generations will make it OK but I will be long gone by then.

Same here with you all the way.

 

[scap99]

I don't have anything in mind where society has become less tolerant towards. Examples?

Men
Guns
Christians
Morals
Values

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Men
Guns
Christians
Morals
Values

Nuff said. I've never considered myself much of a religious person, but if I were asked, I'd say I'm a Christian. I don't have anything against any other religion, so I'd be willing to accept anyone into the BSA regardless of religion if it were up to me (as long as they accepted the fact that this is the way things are done and if they don't like it, there's the door). But yeah, MEN, guns, morals, and values must not be compromised on AT ALL.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

I don't have anything in mind where society has become less tolerant towards. Examples?

Less tolerant my ass. They've taken tolerance of gays to an entirely new, and unacceptable level. I don't believe someone should be directly discriminated against for their sexual orientation, but this bullshit about trying to force people to accept it is, well, bullshit. And trying to force the Boy Scouts to accept it is crossing the line. At some point, people have to stop giving a damn if they offend people, cause obviously they won't stop till this country is a rainbow flag waving Candyland full of anti gun libtards where even pedophiles get "equal rights" and calling them a pedophile is considered "discrimination" because the proper term is "minor attracted" (no joke, they really have a group pushing for that).

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

Men
Guns
Christians
Morals
Values

I agree with the first two, but will change "men" to "masculinity". We are definitely seeing an influx of pussies in today's society.

I don't feel like discussing religion, and don't plan to over a forum. I don't want to lose some e-friends over a tone or voice that is lost via the internet.

You may feel your morals and values are under attack, but the same could be said for two gay people who want to get married.

Less tolerant my ass. They've taken tolerance of gays to an entirely new, and unacceptable level. I don't believe someone should be directly discriminated against for their sexual orientation, but this bullshit about trying to force people to accept it is, well, bullshit. And trying to force the Boy Scouts to accept it is crossing the line. At some point, people have to stop giving a damn if they offend people, cause obviously they won't stop till this country is a rainbow flag waving Candyland full of anti gun libtards where even pedophiles get "equal rights" and calling them a pedophile is considered "discrimination" because the proper term is "minor attracted" (no joke, they really have a group pushing for that).

Force people to accept it? Clearly, no one is forcing you to believe in anything. It will be up to BSA to determine whether or not they want to allow it, and not whoever is trying to "force" them. You're also being a bit extreme here with the discrimination of pedophiles comment.

I don't understand you. You're tolerant of gays, but not fully tolerant, since "they've" taken tolerance to a new level. You either are, or you aren't. Either admit that you can discriminate against sexual orientation or admit that you can't. You can't have it both ways.




Also, I'm bowing out of this thread I think. I'm not in Boy Scouts, and was only a cub scout, so I don't have an input. Not my organization, not my call.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

I agree with the first two, but will change "men" to "masculinity". We are definitely seeing an influx of pussies in today's society.

I don't feel like discussing religion, and don't plan to over a forum. I don't want to lose some e-friends over a tone or voice that is lost via the internet.

You may feel your morals and values are under attack, but the same could be said for two gay people who want to get married.



Force people to accept it? Clearly, no one is forcing you to believe in anything. It will be up to BSA to determine whether or not they want to allow it, and not whoever is trying to "force" them. You're also being a bit extreme here with the discrimination of pedophiles comment.

I don't understand you. You're tolerant of gays, but not fully tolerant, since "they've" taken tolerance to a new level. You either are, or you aren't. Either admit that you can discriminate against sexual orientation or admit that you can't. You can't have it both ways.

What do you mean you don't understand me? What do you mean you have no idea what I'm talking about them trying to force people to accept it. Do you need an example? Here's one:

Asking Ms. California how she feels about gay marriage then stripping her of her crown when the answer is she believes in traditional marriage but doesn't criticize anyone for their personal life choices.

Like I said, I have no problem with gays, it is their choice. But I don't believe they should be trying to force acceptance of gay lifestyles on society.

And as for being extreme about the pedophiles comment:

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=11517

http://awakentheelephants.com/blog/?p=6445

You can't make this stuff up. I'm sorry if I've offended you though.

 

[scap99]

I agree with the first two, but will change "men" to "masculinity". We definitely are definitely seeing an influx of pussies in today's society.

I don't feel like discussing religion, and don't plan to over a forum. I don't want to lose some e-friends over a tone or voice that is lost via the internet.

You may feel your morals and values are under attack, but the same could be said for two gay people who want to get married.

You're just too young. Enjoy it, because as you grow older, the things grumpy old men complain about are revealed to be truth.

Those that preach tolerance are those least likely to be tolerant.
Just like diversity. They really mean conformity.

Most everything I believe in is less tolerated today than when I was a child. My demographic is the recipient of more discrimination than any other in this country.

Want to see an example of how the white male is discriminated against? Look up HUB. Historically Underutilized Businesses. Go get HUB status and you have a greater chance to win a contract than legitimate companies. I've been behind these fools on job sites. They have no business even quoting the work. Much less winning it, but for the sake of tolerance and diversity they were awarded a job they could not perform.

I believe in merit. That won't be tolerated.
I believe I should be able to hire or fire whomever I please. That won't be tolerated.
I believe i should be able to deny service to anyone for anything. That won't be tolerated.

Tolerance can go **** itself. I'm sick of tolerating everyone else's shit while mine aren't. Want diversity, good. I disagree with everything the left stands for. Now, we have diversity.